Angry with fishing tactics (rant/long read)

[soloartist]

I have been fishing the Salmon River Tributaries for nearly 8 years now, and I am fed up with almost everyone else who fishes these tributaries.

When I first visited the river, I was taught fishing techniques that are fair and are, in my opinion, true to the sport of fishing. I have never once intentionally foul hooked a fish, nor do I wildly chase fish up and down the stream.

I am usually the first to the spot, and wait for up to an hour for the legal fishing time. It is usually dark out, and you can hear the fish moving all over the place. as legal fishing time nears, hoards of fishermen start moving in, and start standing around me. sometimes, these guys start fishing right in front of me, as if I'm not even there. even if they don't, they start fishing just above, or just below me. they end up chasing fish up to me, down to me, and out of the hole I'm fishing. by the time I drop my line in the water, the fish are so scattered and spooked, that it becomes nearly impossible to fish for them.

when I do hook into one, and it goes above the hole, or below the hole, people simply start fishing right where I just hooked into that fish.

are there really that few fishing spots left? do you have to fish right where I am hooking into fish?

..and these people aren't even trying to fish for them, they are dropping in "fake" lures trying to hook into these fish any way they can. it also sickens me to see these people bring their kids along and teach them the same illegal/rude techniques.

anyway, am I overreacting here?? or does every other "legal" fishermen/women go through the same thing?

[Craydaddy]

Welcome to Salmon Season man. I know your pain. That is why I can't wait for the CHROME STEEL!! BRING ON THE :snow:

[TOPGUN]

You're not alone...it's a sad statement to the way things used to be, when snagging was legal. For many it's the only way they know, unfortunately in this case ignorance is NOT bliss. I started that way many years ago, became more educated in fishing the SR for Salmon, tried it the legal/ethical way and found it worked. I felt 1000% better/honest with every hook up I got!

Last year I watched a kid across the river from me spot a fish, try snagging it 3 or 4 times before succeeding. When he finally snagged it and banked it he then took the hook out and KICKED (twice) the fish back into the water!!!!:censored: :censored: :censored: I'm not one for confrontation on the water (I'm there to relax) but I wanted to rip this kids lungs out.

We all have to deal with those who are still fishing unethically. Sometimes a few kind words work and sometimes they don't. Just last week JStreamside watched a kid bring in a foul hooked Coho and put it on the stringer. About 15 minutes later he had a chance to talk to the kid and actually talked him into (nicely, politely) releasing the fish.

Don't give up, keep trying. Slowly I think and others will back me, the attitude of those who fish the SR is changing for the better.

[9 wt]

Hey solo
I have no idea what you mean :rolleyes:

[Tempe]

Solo, The best thing I can tell you is don't fish those areas that the fish expose themselves. Those areas tend to bring out the worst in people.

[soloartist]

Solo, The best thing I can tell you is don't fish those areas that the fish expose themselves. Those areas tend to bring out the worst in people.



good idea, but I tend to fish these areas 'cause there aren't usually as many people as there are on the main river.. but when there are a lot of these :censored: people there......

[njg0621]

How many posts are we going to have about this topic??? I mean seriously it seems like every other thread that is started in general discussion is about "fishing tactics". I don't know it just seems like it's getting a little old now.

[Tiogafishaddict]

How many posts are we going to have about this topic??? I mean seriously it seems like every other thread that is started in general discussion is about "fishing tactics". I don't know it just seems like it's getting a little old now.

As many as it takes to cure the world!! comeon man... its a BIG TIME problem and its on peoples minds its an every day expierence for most guys on the river..

[Salmonfan]

Maybe there are alot of posts on the topic because alot of people are sick of seeing this :censored: happening.

Hey, TG, was that the day when we were just upstream from the trestle? If that's the one you're refering to, I remember that kid. What a yutz!

[BIGHERG]

YEP,it's pretty bad on the river this year..Seems like when the salmon come into the river, people turn into CAVE MEN.My favoite was the 40 people standing in the shalows above haldane on sunday waiting for a fish to bust up through with it's back out of the water.The NEANDATHAWLS (sp) would throw everthing they had at those fish, drag them in backwards and load up the stringers.I wonder where the DEC is this year???or are they too busy walking the political tight rope up there??.Can't wait for steelie season:fish:

[Tempe]

good idea, but I tend to fish these areas 'cause there aren't usually as many people as there are on the main river.. but when there are a lot of these :censored: people there......

If you can find tribs this time of the year without people around...yes, can be a great deal of fun, but the chances of that happening are fairly slim...you know, ultimate Risk/reward. I was in your shoes a few years back, I just don't enjoy fishing to fish I can see any longer...call it evolution. There are places on the SR that have fish and not that many people, just have to explore.

How many posts are we going to have about this topic??? I mean seriously it seems like every other thread that is started in general discussion is about "fishing tactics". I don't know it just seems like it's getting a little old now.

As many as it takes...*****ing about the *****ing is just as old.

[Ditchrat]

How many posts are we going to have about this topic??? I mean seriously it seems like every other thread that is started in general discussion is about "fishing tactics". I don't know it just seems like it's getting a little old now.

As many as it takes to let everybody know that scum bag actions on the rivers will not be ignored and we are watching. My cell phone is charged, the number is in speed dial, and I have a video camera ready to go to record illegal action to provide the DEC officer with evedience to help them out...........................

[Iwan]

I fished last Saturday and I have to say I am done with fishing during salmon season on the SR. Too many idiots on the water with not an ounce of respect for their fellow anglers.

My buddy and I fished above Sportsmans Pool for a while and watched 2 guys chasing fish up and down river, snagging them and then placing them on stringers. They were both wearing identical waders, and back/chestpacks with camo ball caps. So guys, if you're reading this I took your pictures and passed all that information onto the DEC.

We then moved upriver and I hooked into a real nice steelie that eventually came unbuttoned. This got the attention of a group of about 6 guys who descended into the hole I was fishing and they basically crowded me out. I told the nearest guy I was fishing that hole and his response was 'so are we now'.

Bring on the cold so all these d!cks leave the river.

[gebbyfish]

What we need is a 6 foot 8, 275 lb middle linebacker type with an AK 47 to take care of the problem! Ha, ha. Just trying to carry this theme where it will eventually go, but perhaps before it gets to 200 posts.

[soloartist]

well, does 6'5" 240 help?

anyway.. I know this is a common topic, but the problem doesn't seem to be going away, just getting worse.

there just seems to be a general "acceptance" of the practice among a large percentage of the fisher"people"

I can't even begin to count how many people I've talked to that think the salmon don't even bite. they say: "the dec knows you can't catch 'em legally, etc.."

it's like they find the biggest hook and slap some sponge on it, and snag away.. there is absolutely no attempt to actually "catch" the fish..

I see these donks looking at me as I fish with this puzzled stare. like "how is he catching so many fishing like that?"

[RJ's Addiction]

Gebbyfish, you want to use a AR-15 instead of the ak-47 they jam. :)

[gebbyfish]

Gebbyfish, you want to use a AR-15 instead of the ak-47 they jam. :)

Sounds like a plan. Where do you want to meet on Monday?(Ha, ha).

[heavyfire99]

i had the pleasure of fishing a trib, that when i got there was LOADED with fish, so i got out the fly rod and walked a ways and found some fish, there was a hole below me that was full of fish, with 2 other fly fisherman, well, there were so many fish you couldnt help but foul hook them on accident, and if so the fish were broke off right away.

so the next day i get to that same hole and had it to myself, LOADED with fish. i tried everything in my box except my red/green/pink wooly bugger, and BANG BANG BANG, fish after fish after fish took that fly it was rediuclous<sp> shortly after daylight a younger kid walks by and goes WOW look at all the fish. I said yup i see them. he stood and watched he goes" hey man, why havent you hooked any of those fish?" i said, they will hook themselves when they take my fly". the kid replys back, "these things dont bite you have to snag them" no sooner did he say that a HUGE male came up and smashed my fly right infront of him. so i kindly turned to him and said " who says they dont take flys" the kid left.

shortly after that i had 15 guys just above my hole snagging the shhhhh out of the fish then found out about my hole and moved in. i politely asked for a little room as im fly fishing, the one guy goes TOUGH SHIIII pal, its a public stream!, i said ok, your right. so i went and retied my line and went and stood RIGHT NEXT TO HIM. i mean touching his shoulder, he says do you have to stand so close? i said TOUGH SHIIII PAL its a public stream. and then i left. to go fish the town pool with floats and sacs and nad a blast.

i agree, salmon season brings out all the retards. but i dont care, ill still stand in the town pool and run a float with a sac or a PINK WORM lol all the way down teh pool with people on both sides i dont care.

dj

[drevil]

A few years ago a friend of mine hired george o'brien to guide us for a day. I was a relative novice, so I tagged along as well. In addition to learning the proper way to fish the SR (this was my second year), I experienced first hand that the salmon will HIT a fly if presented correctly.

In an unrelated matter, we were fishing the upper fly zone and i hooked into a beast that I fought a good 20 minutes and a third of a mile down the river only to lose it at the net. Trophy angler said was in the neighborhood of 35 lbs. It was an epic battle my friends.......

Anyway, my point is, spend a few bucks to learn the correct way and it will last you a lifetime.

[Flyguy5910]

Big fish bring out the worst in people, a normally sane :crazy: person turns into a fishing god and must hook anything comes by lol:fishing2: now to the real point we all need to remember that alot of these guys only get out at this time and only know this way to fish or hunt for that matter. so when manners and ethics dont work use dynamite works for me

[RJ's Addiction]

GEBBYFISH. I happen to have a nightscope on mine. So we may be able to hold A hole. But the barrel gets in the way when I cast. :D
I'm going Sunday I'll clear you a path.

[gebbyfish]

make that path long and wide! Where shall I be fishing unencumbered by the great unwashed masses? Any particular areas that you will be concentrating your efforts on?

I'm just kidding of course. Don't want to be profiled by the FBI for making internet threats. But maybe that would work. Announce that particular areas of the river will be monitored by DEC sharpshooters and that violators of fishing rules will get one warning shot and then with the next violation, right in the casting arm. Those continuing to violate the rules, get the next shot in the 'nads!

[got_rain?]

First I'll say, some of these topics and threads are pitiful. After spending 20 years on the river, you just have to come to grips with some of the things that go on and realize that will never? change. Even as you educate more people on "how" to fish, you will always have new "greenhorns" coming there for the action of those majestic giants.

Double standard.
There seems to be a lot of people on here who preach about fish will hit anything if you provoke them enough. Well, get real. Just because someone uses sponge, doesn't mean they are snaggers. Maybe you haven't learned what colors or effectiveness of type to be used. I have caught as many trout on ****colored sponge than I have with actual flies, does this mean flies do not work, of course not...it just depends on circumstances. I don't care if you use flies, pin, spin or whatever, but when the final action is a hook in the mouth of a salmon or trout (who cares!). take your fish go home, release it (that's your choice), but quit worrying about the guy next to you!

good fishing to all

[PeteB]

I have fished the Salmon river since 1966 long before the fools started coming to the area. Now that I am retired and can pick my days I never fish the Salmon river until the end of October. It's just too frustrating to watch these outlaws flaunt ever rule in the book with their kid standing next to them.
When they first surveyed fishermen on the river asking our thoughts about a Salmon program I was against the way the state suggested how we could fish for them.(snagging) The state opened up a can of worms with the early legal snagging program and it will never be controlled especially with the whimpy punishment when caught. I fish almost 300 days a year now mostly on the flats in Florida and have talked with many people who once visited New York to fish the runs. These are fishermen who know how to fish and they won't come anymore because slobs on the river. It's a shame that those who follow the rules must stay home or find other fishing spots while the outlaws roam the banks of the Salmon littering every square inch.

PS: Anyone on the board who would enjoy catching Tarpon. Reds, Snook and Jacks on the flats of Charlotte Harbor in July, August, September, February, March, April, and May drop me a line or look me up on the river From late October until January...PeteB

[woolybugger65]

A few years ago a friend of mine hired george o'brien to guide us for a day. I was a relative novice, so I tagged along as well. In addition to learning the proper way to fish the SR (this was my second year), I experienced first hand that the salmon will HIT a fly if presented correctly.

In an unrelated matter, we were fishing the upper fly zone and i hooked into a beast that I fought a good 20 minutes and a third of a mile down the river only to lose it at the net. Trophy angler said was in the neighborhood of 35 lbs. It was an epic battle my friends.......

Anyway, my point is, spend a few bucks to learn the correct way and it will last you a lifetime.


did george let you fight a fish for 20 minutes in the UFZ?

[Eric**]

HHMMM, this all seems very familiar.

But are we as anglers and sportsman going to do anything about it? I'm open for suggestions.

[RJ's Addiction]

Gebbyfish, I was thinking about the tresle. It is a raised area and can get a nice view from their. Maybe a warning shot and then smoke their reel. I'm also kidding but the things you see on the river the boys from jackass could make a new movie.:D

[Angling-Adventures]

Welcome to Salmon Season man. I know your pain. That is why I can't wait for the CHROME STEEL!! BRING ON THE :snow:

They're Heeere:D

[RJ's Addiction]

PETEB, MY Uncle was a place in Meritt Island. He has been trying to get me down there I guess it's UNREAL.

[RJ's Addiction]

SORRY, HAS a place.....

[flyplumb]

Cause all you bickering babies are fiing Crazy. We have yet another thread about guns, gay profiles, snagging,and just plain whining. My sisters complain less than most of you. Grow up! Face it snaggin is here to stay and if you don't like it stay the f off the river. One less 20-60 year old baby on the river. Dont let the door hit ya on the way out. :woohoo:

[gebbyfish]

Cause all you bickering babies are fiing Crazy. We have yet another thread about guns, gay profiles, snagging,and just plain whining. My sisters complain less than most of you. Grow up! Face it snaggin is here to stay and if you don't like it stay the f off the river. One less 20-60 year old baby on the river. Dont let the door hit ya on the way out. :woohoo:

They don't make smolts like they used to! Lighten up flyplumb. This thread occurred last year at this time, and it will probably recur annually. If you're going to stick with Salmon Crazy, and you should 'cause it's a great site, then you are going to have to accept this whining. If you can't deal with it, don't open the thread and read it!

[flyplumb]

They don't make smolts like they used to! Lighten up flyplumb. This thread occurred last year at this time, and it will probably recur annually. If you're going to stick with Salmon Crazy, and you should 'cause it's a great site, then you are going to have to accept this whining. If you can't deal with it, don't open the thread and read it!

I'm not the one who needs to lighten up fool. Believe me... I'm as cool s the other side of the pillow. :crazy:

[BIGHERG]

Cause all you bickering babies are fiing Crazy. We have yet another thread about guns, gay profiles, snagging,and just plain whining. My sisters complain less than most of you. Grow up! Face it snaggin is here to stay and if you don't like it stay the f off the river. One less 20-60 year old baby on the river. Dont let the door hit ya on the way out. :woohoo:



HMMMMMMMMMMMM:eek: ,sounds like you maight belong on one of those "OTHER" salmon river forums.....

[gebbyfish]

That's nice. But if you're already losing it and this thread is only 30+ posts long, how are you gonna feel when it's at 200 like the last thread that there was on a similar subject. It's a long swim upriver buddy, pace yourself.

[flyplumb]

I could careless. The fact that defending this thread and every other one like it is fiing hilarious.

[flyplumb]

Admit it its gettin old.

[gebbyfish]

Perhaps you don't appreciate the fine art of sarcasm, or perhaps sarcasm cannot be appreciated after a 12 pack or so. I know the post is getting old. But if you don't like it, here's a thought.....DON'T READ IT!!!!! Read the fricking posts. Some think we can change the behavior of a**holes on the river by showing them the light. Do you really think that your posts are going to get people to stop posting on this topic?

[WillyG]

:fishing2: :confused: :censored:

[flyplumb]

I'm probably the most sarcastic mfer youd meet. It just proves, it doesn't take much to ruffle a few feathers :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[flyplumb]

Btw gebby. Please tell me your not my old buddy from highschool in Jersey. That would be a trip.

[JeffL]

Stop feeding the troll. :scared:

[WillyG]

See no evil !! Hear no evil !! Speak no evil!! :eek:

[flyplumb]

I use to love beatin up on you and pope john.

[WillyG]

what!

[WillyG]

who that!

[flyplumb]

Sparta NJ right? Well your highschool and our other rival Pope John.

[WillyG]

played for walkill

[fishon1954]

We then moved upriver and I hooked into a real nice steelie that eventually came unbuttoned. This got the attention of a group of about 6 guys who descended into the hole I was fishing and they basically crowded me out. I told the nearest guy I was fishing that hole and his response was 'so are we now'.



There's a common cure for someone who takes your spot.
Walk up river,JUST above the j/o that took your spot.
Cast out like you normally do,only let out extra line.When you know your hook is downstream & below the *******,start reeling the line in.
When the hook is just below his leg,lift your rod high & yell "Fish On."
Then tell him how sorry you are for putting your hook into his boot & say "I thought I had a bite."
If the jerk doesn't get the hint & becomes aggresive towards you,smack him across the face with the tip of your rod as hard as you can.That will slow him down enough for you to get onto shore & kick his *** before he can get out & react.
It's a tried & true method.

[TrOuT-MaN]

now2 fellas if these "rippers"are snagging the fish but still releasing them whats the big deal im mean come on give it a break,these fish are here to complete there life cycle and die let the idiots be idiots and us fishermen stay to are selves and have fun on the water.:fish: :fishing2:

[wvboy]

It is bad. But I feel that theres a change evolving here. Keep posting posts like this! How many lurkers out there are probably THOSE people that you mention. How many Black Sponge Bobs are reading this right now and are slowing but surely becoming a Part of the Salmon River history........................................... ..On the shelf beside the CRICKET!!

[stackmend]

I was just wondering if Lil started a lifting board how many posters there would be and how long it would take for all the posts to turn into me and Joe went 18 for 145. Couldn't land them they was biggins.
Intentionally snagging (even in the mouth) is against the regs. Those that do it are stealing the opportunity of those fishing legally to fish for these fish in as much of an undisturbedstate as they can have after coming out of 100ft of water and into 3ft. The more they are disturbed, the spookier they become, the spookier they become the less they bite, its a never ending cycle.

[soloartist]

now2 fellas if these "rippers"are snagging the fish but still releasing them whats the big deal im mean come on give it a break,these fish are here to complete there life cycle and die let the idiots be idiots and us fishermen stay to are selves and have fun on the water.:fish: :fishing2:

yeah, it is a big deal.. harassing wildlife is not only unsportsmanlike, but also illegal..

snagging is not fishing.. just like shooting animals in cages is not hunting..

[jomat]

My dad started fishing Ontario tribs when snagging was legal, as I'm sure a lot of guys here fathers did. And when snagging was made illegal he became a pretty damn good lifter (there is an obvious difference). When he was teaching me to trib fish we always bottom bounced egg sacks and caught fish, but when fish didn't bite you just lifted them. Unfortunantly, I sucked at lifting! When I started fishing the Erie streams in college I realized pretty quickly by watching the guys on the creek that "they will bite if you let them", and figured that since I was terrible at lifting anyway I would change my tactics. Now I fly/pin fish, am equally bad at both, but I still catch fish, and if a fish doesn't want to eat then I don't want to catch it. Am I a bad guy cause I used to snag fish? Should my dad be shot in the head for teaching a 12 year old how to lift? Come on guys, trout fishing is a progression. Do what you can but stop trying to be judge and jury to people that just want to have good time and try to catch fish; it's not worth ruining your day over.

[gebbyfish]

My dad started fishing Ontario tribs when snagging was legal, as I'm sure a lot of guys here fathers did. And when snagging was made illegal he became a pretty damn good lifter (there is an obvious difference). When he was teaching me to trib fish we always bottom bounced egg sacks and caught fish, but when fish didn't bite you just lifted them. Unfortunantly, I sucked at lifting! When I started fishing the Erie streams in college I realized pretty quickly by watching the guys on the creek that "they will bite if you let them", and figured that since I was terrible at lifting anyway I would change my tactics. Now I fly/pin fish, am equally bad at both, but I still catch fish, and if a fish doesn't want to eat then I don't want to catch it. Am I a bad guy cause I used to snag fish? Should my dad be shot in the head for teaching a 12 year old how to lift? Come on guys, trout fishing is a progression. Do what you can but stop trying to be judge and jury to people that just want to have good time and try to catch fish; it's not worth ruining your day over.
Glad to hear that you matured as a fisherman. I don't think there is anything wrong with wanting all fishermen to have your attitude: "...if a fish doesn't want to eat then I don't want to catch it." If people don't talk about the way things are, things will not change. There's an old quote, "Those who forget the past, are doomed to repeat it." Only by remembering where we came from, are we ever going to get to where we want to be!

[stackmend]

No jomat you aren't a bad guy for what you used to do. The biggest difference between lifting (a form of snagging spelled out at one time in the regs as such by name) and cricket snagging is that the snaggers were doing something that was LEGAL!!! After the regs changes were made all snagging or intent to snag were ILLEGAL. While I NEVER WAS A SNAGGER OR SAW WHY ANYONE WOULD BE, I never whined,as some call it about them since they were following the rules of the time and I or anyone else could have done the same. Lifters on the other hand know what they do is illegal and continue to do it showing no respect for the fish or others on the water trying to follow the rules.

[9 wt]

So how's the fishing?

[This Guy]

yeah, it is a big deal.. harassing wildlife is not only unsportsmanlike, but also illegal..

snagging is not fishing.. just like shooting animals in cages is not hunting..

Not to take sides but could"nt C&R be considered harassing wild life;)

[cinozzy]

Gebbyfish, you want to use a AR-15 instead of the ak-47 they jam. :)

i strongly disagree, ak-47 =:) legendary reliability.

[soloartist]

Not to take sides but could"nt C&R be considered harassing wild life;)

you have a point there, to some extent.. but C&R seems to be in the spirit of sport fishing.. and I still consider salmon fishing sport fishing (or at least the way I catch them)..


I just don't like the mentality, nor do I like the technique.. I just don't see how "lifters"/snaggers can call themselves fishermen

I dunno... I just feel really guilty when I accidentally foul hook a fish..

[soloartist]

Not to take sides but could"nt C&R be considered harassing wild life;)

another side note to this.

it's almost like saying, shouldn't boxing be illegal because it's assault, or shouldn't fighting in hockey be illegal because it is also assault?

those actions are within the nature of sport.. just like catch and release is in the "realm" of the sport..

[RJ's Addiction]

Cinozzy, I played with both and I like the AR-15.
Still somrthing needs to be done about the problem on the stream.I think I'll go fishing and enjoy my time on the water. :fish:

[winter fisher]

More time fishing, less time typing?:rolleyes:

[ballparkmaster]

My dad started fishing Ontario tribs when snagging was legal, as I'm sure a lot of guys here fathers did. And when snagging was made illegal he became a pretty damn good lifter (there is an obvious difference). When he was teaching me to trib fish we always bottom bounced egg sacks and caught fish, but when fish didn't bite you just lifted them. Unfortunantly, I sucked at lifting! When I started fishing the Erie streams in college I realized pretty quickly by watching the guys on the creek that "they will bite if you let them", and figured that since I was terrible at lifting anyway I would change my tactics. Now I fly/pin fish, am equally bad at both, but I still catch fish, and if a fish doesn't want to eat then I don't want to catch it. Am I a bad guy cause I used to snag fish? Should my dad be shot in the head for teaching a 12 year old how to lift? Come on guys, trout fishing is a progression. Do what you can but stop trying to be judge and jury to people that just want to have good time and try to catch fish; it's not worth ruining your day over.


well put jomat...lets hang sometime here in C-town

[soloartist]

let's just say that Columbus weekend really set me off.. :eek: 10 people going for 9 fish in one tiny hole.. are there really no more peaceful fishing spots left?

I'm hoping this weekend will be much better

[kin]

Just a suggestion for those true fisherman on the SR or any trib. If the crowds bother you and you are not enjoying yourself. Give this a try. Don't fish that day and take your camcorder to the river. Tape the people snagging, chasing salmon,keeping foul hooked fish or etc. If the DEC shows up show them the tape,call them. Do what ever it takes to preserve your right as a true fisherman. Most of these fish slayers won't stop breaking rules unless they are caught and have pay fines. With the way this forum gets hit it wouldn't take long for the word to get out that the (Guy with the video camera is helping the DEC) Just my 2 cents:)

Kin

[Fishinmagician78]

I have been fishing the SR for 10 years now. Ever since I could drive I have been coming up every weekend from the end of September till the beginning of November. I was/am a lifter but just bought a fly rod and am making the transition over to fly fishing for salmon. I don't care if you pin, fly fish, lift, spin, whatever the case may be you should still be considerate of those fishing around you. If a guy is swinging flies don't go just down from him and ruin his drift. This has been the worst year I have ever seen in terms of people being A-holes, and thats why I am giving up the lifting. I always thought it was common courtesy if a guy leaves his spot to land his fish that you give the spot back when he returns. Apparently that is not the case, but if somebody comes and fishes 2 feet from me I snag their line every drift. If they take my spot after I return I stand right next to them and get in their way till they leave. Maybe that makes me an A-hole but if people had some consideration it wouldn't be an issue. I don't think the problem is just the type of fishing people are doing its the fact that they have no respect for the resource or the people around them. There are ways to lift fish and still be considerate of those around you, believe me I do it all the time.

RJ aaron and I are going tomorrow am I'll give you a call in the afternoon with a report.

[Salmonfan]

There are ways to lift fish and still be considerate of those around you, believe me I do it all the time.

First, let me say thanks for being considerate of other anglers. That's rare these days and I appreciate someone who is considerate. You don't need to lift to have a chance to play with these monster fish. That is what bugs alot of us the most is this perception that lifting is OK or somehow acceptable. You said you're making the transition from it, which actually says alot for you. Alot of guys won't try anything else so let me give you an "atta-boy" for trying to take your game to the next level. We all started out as something else - I used to just throw a single egg out and hope I got a take. I had the good fortune of having someone with experience show me alot last season and now I've got a whole new perspective on fishing and much better results too. I hope you have the same increase in luck I did.

[Ditchrat]

First, let me say thanks for being considerate of other anglers. That's rare these days and I appreciate someone who is considerate. You don't need to lift to have a chance to play with these monster fish. That is what bugs alot of us the most is this perception that lifting is OK or somehow acceptable. You said you're making the transition from it, which actually says alot for you. Alot of guys won't try anything else so let me give you an "atta-boy" for trying to take your game to the next level. We all started out as something else - I used to just throw a single egg out and hope I got a take. I had the good fortune of having someone with experience show me alot last season and now I've got a whole new perspective on fishing and much better results too. I hope you have the same increase in luck I did.

Lifting is snagging, who in their right mnind thinks thats ok?

[Salmonfan]

Lifting is snagging, who in their right mnind thinks thats ok?


With the amount of guys that do it, I'd say (unfortunately) alot of people think it's ok. At least one guy is giving it up. Now we just need to get the rest of the Salmon River Lifting Brigade to let it go..........

[Fishinmagician78]

I'm not saying that lifting is ok, or an acceptable way to fish. All I am saying is that if you learn when you are a kid from people who lift and everytime you go thats all you see is people lifting you are going to assume that is the way everyone does it. The only way I learned differently is RJsaddiction told me about this site and I started reading the posts about fly fishing and have decided to do that from now on. No need to crucify me for lifting in the past, and I am pretty sure most people on this site have done it before. Also, lining fish with a fly rod and fly line is no different than lifting. I just thought I would interject my perspective as being a lifter who has given it up to fly fish. I'm just saying it took me a long time to see there is a better way out there and the same could be true of others. However, that doesn't give anyone the right to be a jerk on the water.

[Ditchrat]

I'm not saying that lifting is ok, or an acceptable way to fish. All I am saying is that if you learn when you are a kid from people who lift and everytime you go thats all you see is people lifting you are going to assume that is the way everyone does it. The only way I learned differently is RJsaddiction told me about this site and I started reading the posts about fly fishing and have decided to do that from now on. No need to crucify me for lifting in the past, and I am pretty sure most people on this site have done it before. Also, lining fish with a fly rod and fly line is no different than lifting. I just thought I would interject my perspective as being a lifter who has given it up to fly fish. I'm just saying it took me a long time to see there is a better way out there and the same could be true of others. However, that doesn't give anyone the right to be a jerk on the water.


What you said is all true.

One point that needs to be made is this:

The DEC regs, make lifting and snagging very clear cut, as well as releasing foul hooked fish. There is know exceptablt reason to justify these actions. Everyone gets a lisence to fish (ok maybe not but those who dont are hopeless) and everyone should read the regs before fishing.

So whats the problem with people on the rivers? The more we talk about it and ignore it is the more we condone it.

Everyone needs to take a stand. If you take somebody fishing with you insist that they dont snag fish intentionally, take the high road even if it means getting skunked. We can change things if we want to.

Only one place in the world does somebody yell out its fair hooked.

[Fishinmagician78]

Ditch, I totally agree with you! Even though I have always lifted I break off foul hooked fish and if I do decide to land one I immediately release them. I keep 2 or 3 fish a season (only salmon, no steelhead) and only ones hooked in the mouth to give to friends. If there is such a thing as an "ethical lifter" it would definately be me. I think the thing that really has turned me off as of late, is last week I fished the SR just as every saturday, but I was amazed at the things I saw. I was fishing a small pocket and above me was a shallow riffle. People would sit in that riffle talking and when a fish came up through with its back out of the water they would literally run after it and snag it. Thats just idiacy. If you are going to do that why even use the rod, just run after them, dive on top, let a wrestling match ensue and see who comes out victorious. That would be more sport then what these people are doing. I am not trying to condone lifting, just saying for people like myself, when thats all you see you just assume its the only way. I learned otherwise, mostly because of people like you sharing techniques.

[got_rain?]

yes, lifting and snagging are forms of "snatching" under the regs. trying to change everyone's actions are a joke, DEC or no DEC. Some people just don't care. But consider this, when you have a fly on your line and you are trying to get a salmon to "bite" after he has already been through the combat zones, you in essence are attempting to "snatch".

SNATCHING (directly from the regulations)
means taking fish not
attracted by bait or artificial lure with
hooks, gangs or similar devices
whether or not baited. Snagging, lifting,
and single hook snagging are
types of snatching.

for these fish have no interest in biting (agression or other). One can sit there and watch them dodge your 8lb tippet -estaz or what eever fly you chose while being suspended. After dodging your "bait", how many more casts will you throw at that fish until you get tired or bored, and relize he is not going to bite.

So please, get out of your glass house before you throw stones. Maybe more people should watch a great majority of the "professionals", ie..guides to see how it is done.

Here is my take on things.Everyone casts quartering upstream and sets up a drift. It does not matter what bait you use, as long as that line gets the proper drift. Maybe I can not feel the subtle "take" of salmon on a fly, sponge, or sac, but...when that line stops at any point in the drift, it is one of three things...1) rock on 2) fisherman on 3) fish on. Now, did that fish take my bait or did I drift in his mouth, I honestly do not know. Only the fish would/if they could tell you that. It is my personal opinion that majority of the fish are lined with the drift. case in point. Over the past weekend, I fished across from, side by side, upstream, downstream from four different guides and their clients'. We were all casting the same, spin gear being utilized and had approximately the same amount of weight. They used flies, I used yarn and easily hooked up 3:1 to their clients fishing. We both had similar four hook ups, but 90% or better was in their mouth. From my conversation with two of the guides later that day, obviously my yarn out performed their flies. Therefore, yarn was the fly of choice that given day, that given hole. NOT... It just ment that I had a better drift in the hole that we were fishing.

good fishing

[got_rain?]

yes, lifting and snagging are forms of "snatching" under the regs. trying to change everyone's actions are a joke, DEC or no DEC. Some people just don't care. But consider this, when you have a fly on your line and you are trying to get a salmon to "bite" after he has already been through the combat zones, you in essence are attempting to "snatch".

SNATCHING (directly from the regulations)
means taking fish not
attracted by bait or artificial lure with
hooks, gangs or similar devices
whether or not baited. Snagging, lifting,
and single hook snagging are
types of snatching.

for these fish have no interest in biting (agression or other). One can sit there and watch them dodge your 8lb tippet -estaz or what eever fly you chose while being suspended. After dodging your "bait", how many more casts will you throw at that fish until you get tired or bored, and relize he is not going to bite.

So please, get out of your glass house before you throw stones. Maybe more people should watch a great majority of the "professionals", ie..guides to see how it is done.

Here is my take on things.Everyone casts quartering upstream and sets up a drift. It does not matter what bait you use, as long as that line gets the proper drift. Maybe I can not feel the subtle "take" of salmon on a fly, sponge, or sac, but...when that line stops at any point in the drift, it is one of three things...1) rock on 2) fisherman on 3) fish on. Now, did that fish take my bait or did I drift in his mouth, I honestly do not know. Only the fish would/if they could tell you that. It is my personal opinion that majority of the fish are lined with the drift. case in point. Over the past weekend, I fished across from, side by side, upstream, downstream from four different guides and their clients'. We were all casting the same, spin gear being utilized and had approximately the same amount of weight. They used flies, I used yarn and easily hooked up 3:1 to their clients fishing. We both had similar four hook ups, but 90% or better was in their mouth. From my conversation with two of the guides later that day, obviously my yarn out performed their flies. Therefore, yarn was the fly of choice that given day, that given hole. NOT... It just ment that I had a better drift in the hole that we were fishing.

good fishing

[KingofKings]

yes, lifting and snagging are forms of "snatching" under the regs. trying to change everyone's actions are a joke, DEC or no DEC. Some people just don't care. But consider this, when you have a fly on your line and you are trying to get a salmon to "bite" after he has already been through the combat zones, you in essence are attempting to "snatch".


So you are snatching if you are fly-fishing...Hmmmmmm..ok...sure! They do bite, even if they aren't biting to eat! :rolleyes: Above:rolleyes: doesn't quite work for me...

[diceman]

end this thread whats the point anymore?

[ecsteelheader]

Amen.....Lets :fish: >))>

[Salmonfan]

Obviously it's still a point that has peoples attention. If you don't like the debate, why chime in or even read the post?

[KingofKings]

Obviously it's still a point that has peoples attention. If you don't like the debate, why chime in or even read the post?

Amen brotha...amen!

Don't read it if you are going to post about not wanting to read it. This thread will end when someone stops bringing up "facts" to debate.

[Ditchrat]

Amen brotha...amen!

Don't read it if you are going to post about not wanting to read it. This thread will end when someone stops bringing up "facts" to debate.

This thread needs to be hammered home, over and over again until people stop.

POACHING is theft of public property, IE It is someone steeling from you

[FLYFSN]

molesting: means the harassing, disturbing, or interfering with fish by any means, including the use of any missile or object not established as legal gear; molesting includes dragging, kicking, throwing, striking, or otherwise abusing a fish which is intended to be released.

Since there is no more snagging in the SR. A foul hooked fish has to be released!


This is a definition right out of Alaska Fish and game regs, Surely the state of NY has something simular. If not maybe on of you guys could suggest it be added to NY fishing regulations. My state (Alaska) holds annual board of fishery meetings open to the public, where things like this can be suggested. Its sad such a rule or law has to be written! Even in Alaska!!!




Just my 2 cents

[ecsteelheader]

Obviously it's still a point that has peoples attention. If you don't like the debate, why chime in or even read the post?

Why because i can, I choose to read or not to read a post,this is a open forum. Every one on here knows its the same thing every year, Lifters,Liners ,Snaggers , are catching fish.I'm sure everyone on this site has foul hooked fish and released them or broke them off.But If you see the bad guys doing there thing call the DEC plain and simple, or Take pictures with a celly or camera ,follow the cronies get their license plates give that info to the DEC..If you choose not to do anything bite your tongue ,walk away find another spot ,you cant let these people get to you. Life is to short..What really pi$$'es me off is the mono-fly guys you see in the fall and winter sight fishing for steelies and browns w/20 lb test, I had a ex-friend who in one day caught/lifted 2 nice steelies and 1 big brown he made sick i damn near called the DEC on him , I had to leave our cabin because i wanted to kick his *** becuse i was sick of the bragging!! To me he didnt acomplish $hit,,Try it on 6lb test w/a 4 lb leader with flies or eggs...I havent fished with him in 5 years...I enjoy the river w/o his bull$hit.....Ive seen people taking short stripers @ the surf which friggin irks me now i have the SHook cops/rangers phone# in my celly..If we all want the snaggers/lifters to go ,You must call the DEC!!!! Well 1 more day and i'll be there>))> If i got off track blame it on the Kettle 1..lol

[KingofKings]

This thread needs to be hammered home, over and over again until people stop.

POACHING is theft of public property, IE It is someone steeling from you

Ditch, I am agreeing with you, read what I wrote the other way(positive), it isn't clear I know. Responding to 2 different posts at once...

The fact is this has to be discussed over and over, and if you don't want to read or discuss it, then simply don't. And don't post about not wanting to read or discuss it, because it kind of goes without saying if you simply don't read it...
As long as someone wants to snag/lift/snatch a fish, I am ready to debate it. It is WRONG, and illegal. And if you can't catch them without snagging, "take it like a man and shake it off...damn!" I remember my first time I got skunked, and it wasn't that bad, because I didn't know what the hell I was doing. The second time, guess what, went 2/3, both in the mouth. SO they do bite! Hmmmm, guess all those guys snagging up river from the trestle that told em I was an idiot for trying to catch them because "those damn things don't bite". Well my friends, they do, and when they did my life changed!!!

[diceman]

about this thread, all i'm saying is some people are going to follow the law and some aren't, some people don't what to do it any other way no matter how many times you say it or confront them about it, what this thread shows me it that there still are a few good fisherman out there and this is a big promblem, and i truly believe the rippers will still rip until the get caught take the ticket and do it again. when the dec got on there @ss a few years back it slowed down for awhile maybe the dec is understaffed? and can't watch everyone, plus these guys feel it's alright because the salmon are going to die, anyway you here guys on this sight state the salmon hit my fly they will hit when the fly keeps swinging in there face (territorial) need to educate, good luck diceman out

[steelfire]

I agree with Cray, bring on the steel!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! go away goons!!!!!!!!!!!:D

[shotnoyz]

Last week, with the upper river dense in fish and fisherman, I sought elbow room in the Sportsman Hole area. I had it mind to find the Sock Hole, upstream from Sportsman. I still don't know exactly where the Sock Hole is, but there is some nice water up there, and the salmon were finding lots of beds in which to spawn.

About twenty minutes into one long stretch, I began to sense something in the few people in the neighborhood around me. They weren't casting much. Instead they watchrd the water with keen, intense eyes. Spotting a fish moving in, or wallowing in the shallows, they'd pounce. There was no subterfuge at all in their actions. Treble hooks would have helped them better succeed, be more efficient. Even with one hook to each, it was a slaughter.

I have, of course, foul hooked salmon. It is nearly unavoidable, though I feel better when my hook latches near their mouths. I've even coaxed one to strike a fly, a wooly booger, as it protected its nest. That was last year in the upper fly zone. That magnificent fish was nearly dead, with little fight left in it. I won't do that again. When I see them in various stages of obvious decay, I leave them be.

I've killed two salmon this year, a coho and a king. Both were legally hooked, or so I'm told. I didn't see where the king was hooked, but the guy, a stranger, who netted the fish for me told me it was in its mouth. I took him at his word. For me, landing a king in the river is a two man job. Hell, most of the coho I hooked into back in September broke off. For that, I am glad. I like buying/tying flies. And those coho... you know. They are magnificent fish.

Today I again visited the upper fly zone. I must have hooked about six fish., though I didn't set the hook on a single one. I let them run a bit, wiggle, and cut loose from my fly. I guess I would have liked a fight. It's a real thrill connecting to an animal so powerful in its domain, and where it has the advantage, if light tackle is used. They are magnificent. They jump totally out of the water and seem to suspend above the surface for a few surreal and unphysical extra seconds before plunging back in to run wherever they wish.

Yeah, I would've like to have a fight today, but I can wait for that. The steelhead will arrive in larger numbers soon. They bite on bait. No ambiguity in capturing them for a while. They, too, are magnificent.

[LesPaul]

Shot,Whats neat about the SR is you can find quite a bit of awsome fishing if you are willing to venture away from the crowds,look for these areas,and the fishing is great ,We found ares on the river where no people to bother the fish and some of the fish willing to hit flies,its awsome,well worth the legwork.LesPaul.

[shotnoyz]

LesPaul, will certainly better explore, now that I'm out of the short walk from the parking lot frame of mind. Good exercise, too...

[sharkman120]

Hey are you guys sure the fish bit at the fly or did it float into thier mouths? Most people can'nt see bottom in 3' of water let alone a fish's body that blends in pretty :censored: good so are you flyguys lifting/lining/snagging or just saying that fish bit my fly out of aggresion? any thoughts, just my 2cents on the subject

[Ditchrat]

Hey are you guys sure the fish bit at the fly or did it float into thier mouths? Most people can'nt see bottom in 3' of water let alone a fish's body that blends in pretty :censored: good so are you flyguys lifting/lining/snagging or just saying that fish bit my fly out of aggresion? any thoughts, just my 2cents on the subject

Thats the $1,000,000 question.......................................... .........

But most people wouldnt admit it if they knew, however most dont even know

[wvboy]

Thats the $1,000,000 question.......................................... .........

But most people wouldnt admit it if they knew, however most dont even know

And thats what we call "fishing":fishing2: You can apply this to all fishing. How many trout slam a nymph but the hook is in their rear? They hit it right? As far as you know? Bass, Pike, saltwater......Ive had foul hooked fish but thought they hit it? Do I know for sure? No. But at least Im really "fishing"! The point is the ethics of fishing. Maybe Im just really really good at catching fish but of all 40+ fish I hooked into 3 weeks ago I had one questionable hookup on the outside of the cheek? Just fishing, no sight fishing, minimal weight, and flies I tied up myself. Do i know if they bit it? Umm... one launched out of the water and grabbed my fly as I was stretching out my line and almost had my rod yanked out of my hand a few other times. This is only my second year fishing the salmon river and I went into fishing the SR as a believer. Going against all these unethical methods I witnessed there. Its paid off and it feels awesome!

[stackmend]

Sharkman while I know a certain % of kings will be accidently lined by true fishermen I have personaly watched kings move to take a fly many times (mine and other peoples). Given undisturbed fish they will bite for whatever reason. Every one? NO! Can you take me where every fish will bite all the time no matter what species( bass, bluegill,carp, stripers, tuna, bluefish)? Again NO that is why it is fishing not catching.

[Pakingdrift]

I see alot of guys up there over the years working drifts and lifting catching many fish in the mouth. What makes me angry is these guys that dont care and are not trying to get a good mouth shot. I just came back today and i fished one day above the sportsmans pool and there were two guys there ripping into those fish any
way they could. Then one of them would go halfway out into the river chasing the foul hooked fish and net it and throw it on the stringer. They then walked out of there with their limits. I couldnt believe it.

[LesPaul]

Sharks,Im sure I line many with my Flyrod,But what gets me going is when I see them attack the fly,That alone keeps me going,what an accomplishment.That is also why I like to look for fish that are mainly unpressured,alot of leg work but well worth it..LesPaul:)

[LesPaul]

There's a common cure for someone who takes your spot.
Walk up river,JUST above the j/o that took your spot.
Cast out like you normally do,only let out extra line.When you know your hook is downstream & below the *******,start reeling the line in.
When the hook is just below his leg,lift your rod high & yell "Fish On."
Then tell him how sorry you are for putting your hook into his boot & say "I thought I had a bite."
If the jerk doesn't get the hint & becomes aggresive towards you,smack him across the face with the tip of your rod as hard as you can.That will slow him down enough for you to get onto shore & kick his *** before he can get out & react.
It's a tried & true method.
Fish, No s#it,does that work ...LMFAS,,,,:laugh: :laugh:

[soloartist]

molesting: means the harassing, disturbing, or interfering with fish by any means, including the use of any missile or object not established as legal gear; molesting includes dragging, kicking, throwing, striking, or otherwise abusing a fish which is intended to be released.

Since there is no more snagging in the SR. A foul hooked fish has to be released!


This is a definition right out of Alaska Fish and game regs, Surely the state of NY has something simular. If not maybe on of you guys could suggest it be added to NY fishing regulations. My state (Alaska) holds annual board of fishery meetings open to the public, where things like this can be suggested. Its sad such a rule or law has to be written! Even in Alaska!!!




Just my 2 cents


should be released, but I saw a guy keep four yesterday... ah sportsmanship

[fishon1954]

Fish, No s#it,does that work ...LMFAS,,,,:laugh: :laugh:

YES !!!