Line use

[ask0329]

My cousin and i where in Gander MTN the other day and my cousin bought some fireline to use Salmon fishing. Hes die hard fireline and wont use anything else. He has it on all his poles regardless of what hes fishing for. The kid at the register proceeded to make some snotty comments regarding the use fireline salmon fishing. It is my understanding that as long as your lb test is in the ballpark (which I think is preference to begin with) it really shouldnt matter what kind of line your using. Also I would like to add to that as long as your using the right leader as well. I'm running Mint Frost Iron Silk with Vanish Tranisition leaders and its working excellent for me. I'm sure some people would call that crazy too. Theres so many brands out there of line with varying lb test and I'm a people watcher and I see everyone using all sorts of colored line on the SR. Am I correct in saying its all just based upon preference?

[customrod]

I'm pretty sure using superlines for Salmon will lead to premature rod failure. That line does not stretch, so your rod will take a beating when those salmon run on you.

[Lil Salmon]

One of the biggest problems you will have with super/braided lines is that you can't snap off. You will undoubtably snag up on rocks or other underwater hazards and then won't be able to snap off and retie. Thats not counting what customrod stated which is really stressing your equiptment quite a bit.

Line really is a preference... I have tried countless brands and always found myself back with Maxima Chameleon.

[Ditchrat]

I'm pretty sure using superlines for Salmon will lead to premature rod failure. .

One of the biggest problems you will have with super/braided lines is that you can't snap off.


Fire line and super braids are just fine for steelhead and salmon. They will not cause premature rod failure and they will break off when you get hung up. There is no added stress on your rod if you gear up correct, and the fact that braid has no stretch on serves to show cheap rods will break when you remove the stretch factor. Quality gear is the key. I have never broken rod using super braid. I even hooked up a 600+ lb BTF on 30lb power pro and burnt off 300 yards of line before I could break it off, and that st croix took more abuse in the 30 sec that fish was on then any rod will take in a life time.

You need to use rods that has guides that are designed to handle the abrassive nature of braids. But if he fishes it then he already knows it.

Like you alluded to in your post, ask0329, if you fish super lines you have to fish the same lb test that the rod is rated for. Just because you can now fit 30lb test on a reel make for 12lb test doesnt mean you should do it.

I also fish braids on all my conventional and spinning setups and enjoy fishing it. You hook more fish, and lose less line do to knicks as rubs. It is really the fishermans revolutions, although some dont yet understand how and when to use it and many people dont like it for that reason.

Basically your cousin will out fish you on your trip. Super line is thinner in diameter, which means you have to use less weight to get down to the fish. This gives you a more natural drift, gets you ino the zone quicker and for a longer time. You canb feel every pebble on the bottom, and if your cousin is a good superline fisherman he will basically be able to draw you a map of what the bottom looks like just by feel. All this means more fish will come his way.

Now the down side to all this is if your cousin is a putz and doesnt rig his gear carefully he is going to leave his line all over the bottom when connecting knots between two pieces of super braind fail, and they will fail. Basically you end up causing a safety hazzard for waders. Get caught up in 40lb super braid and it will cut your leg through the waders and down to the bone.

But if your cousin fishes it all the time and knows how to handle and rig his gear, which I suspect from your post then he will be fine. All he needs to do is match his rod with the line he picks and be courtious of other fisherman, line disposel and lost line and all, and it will work out just fine.

The added bonus is when jecks cast over your line when your hooked up they are lossing their gear not you your fish on.

[cliff-OH]

Braided lines are NOT the way to go for fishing in the winter (air temp below freezing) as they absorb just enough water to freeze and fray :mad: ... Cliff

[ask0329]

Thank you everyone for your replies. They are all very understandable and will be taken into consideration. Ditchrat thanks for the confirmation of info and all of the help. Neither of us are by no means running anywhere near 30 lb test and probably never would. I'm right at 17 lb test and I think my cousin is at 20lb test. Its very interesting to hear the different opinions and theories. I brought in a king the other day that weighed in at 14lbs and 32 inches and my equiptment handled it just fine. I try to keep a very close eye on where my drag is set as i feel that is key when fighting these fish. Any time I've ever been snagged its never been a problem recovering my line. I also feel using the superlines may help more when a fish is on and when your line clips the rocks its more likely to hold tight vs snapping on a rock. Thanks again everyone for the thoughts and opinions.

[sharkman120]

Hey ask3029 did you ever get your legs tangled up with line that does not break while wading in the SR? happened to me once up by Pineville, had to take out my Ontario pig stabber and cut it from around my legs, could not move either leg, never leave home with out it, what section of the SR do you fish so I can stay away from it?:crazy:

[ask0329]

If you have half a brain in your head you really shouldnt lose that much line at all. I think over the course of two days a total of about 10 hrs I may have lost approximately 2ft of the line I use. I fish where you cant wade so dont worry about it.

[mkrout]

superlines are not good for salmon fishing. When a salmon is taking out your drag fast the superline will cut your guides and reel. Plus you want some stretch for when the fish runs all over the place.

Also, just so you know, that transition you use for your leaders has a lower break strength than its rated for.

[ask0329]

mkrout I've heard that from a couple different sources now regarding the wear of the guides from the suprelines. I've seen it on a couple of poles. Fortunately I havent ran into that problem at all. Yet. Thanks for pointing out the breaking point with the transition. In theory that should help me to save on my main line and not leave much in the water. I run relatively short leaders. Thanks again everyone for the input. I guess like I sated in my initial post its more or less based upon preference. The set up I have now seems to be working great for me so I'm going to stick with it. I like to try and expierement with different setups and maybe next year I'll go with a different type of line. I know classic setups generaly hold true throughout time but I like to try and go off the beaten path from time to time and see if I can stumble upon something different.

[psac]

Braided lines are NOT the way to go for fishing in the winter (air temp below freezing) as they absorb just enough water to freeze and fray :mad: ... Cliff

I have no experience with Super Braids in the winter time, but I was thinking of spooling up with it on my centerpin this winter. Just curious, do you have personal experience with this isuue?

[Fishhd]

I was mowing the lawn at Double Eagle Lodge one day and someone unspooled about 300yrds of braided line while driving down rt.13, needless to say it got around my blades. I was not a happy camper. I use the stuff for carp fishing only.

[ask0329]

hey atleast I'm not snaggin. The winter thing with the ice in the braids makes sense. I hear it can happen to the eyelits too. Never did any wintertime steelhead fishing but I would like to get into that as well. What is used for lures/bait in the wintertime?

[customrod]

Unless you have really crappy guides and a non ball-bearing roller on your real, superlines will not cut anything. And if you do start to groove your guides, the problem isn't the line, but the dirt that gets trapped in it, acting as an abrasive. Also, when using superlines, after a cast, give the line a little tug with your hand to snug it onto the spool. This will prevent the line from digging into itself.

[Ditchrat]

Unless you have really crappy guides and a non ball-bearing roller on your real, superlines will not cut anything

Really? I have a shoe box full off fji guides, grooved, and cut because guys ran power pro and needed them replaced. I also have a set of snake guide with have of them cut in half from one run of a tuna because someone thought that stren super braid would make good backing.

[cliff-OH]

PSAC -- It sounds so good (12 or 17# test at 4# diameter) that I had to try it ... 2 yrs or so ago, so the line may be improved but I doubt it -- Fireline and Spiderwire ... I used it on a spin set-up, but it's likely to work the same on a pin ... it holds just enough water to freeze itself together ... unlike mono, it won't shed as much water/frost on the rod guides and it kind of puffs up -- it looks like it's frayed, and I think it actually is ... more to the point, it will also freeze to itself on the reel and (spin) you get jerky casts (pin) :censored: backlash ... if you tie it off to a swivel or snap swivel (typical spin setup) the braided line tends to fray at the swivel -- that is, the knot holds OK , but the braid line wrap at the swivel frays/wears even in above freezing temps :eek: ... and ... as has been said earlier, it will cut your hands like nothing else ... HTH Cliff

[psac]

Thanks Cliff. That makes perfect sence to me now. Superbraid does have a thinner diameter but also has an increasaed surface area b/c of the braiding which would allow more area for water to collect and ultimately freeze. Okay, so now I'm back to Siglon.

[customrod]

Hence the reason I mentioned the part about dirt acting as an abrasive. Head on over to http://www.rodbuilding.org and search for braided line for some good insight.

[Ditchrat]

PSAC -- It sounds so good (12 or 17# test at 4# diameter) that I had to try it ... 2 yrs or so ago, so the line may be improved but I doubt it -- Fireline and Spiderwire ... I used it on a spin set-up, but it's likely to work the same on a pin ... it holds just enough water to freeze itself together ... unlike mono, it won't shed as much water/frost on the rod guides and it kind of puffs up -- it looks like it's frayed, and I think it actually is ... more to the point, it will also freeze to itself on the reel and (spin) you get jerky casts (pin) :censored: backlash ... if you tie it off to a swivel or snap swivel (typical spin setup) the braided line tends to fray at the swivel -- that is, the knot holds OK , but the braid line wrap at the swivel frays/wears even in above freezing temps :eek: ... and ... as has been said earlier, it will cut your hands like nothing else ... HTH Cliff
Some of them have changed and a few do not absorb water, I would guess that those would not have the same issue you encountered. To tell you the truth I fish power pro and spiderwire stealth, I do fish them in the surf all winter and I have never had issues, however even at its coldest NJ isnt the same as you have in NY in the winter.

Hence the reason I mentioned the part about dirt acting as an abrasive. Head on over to http://www.rodbuilding.org and search for braided line for some good insight.

Dirt maybe an issue in some peoples opinion however the simple science of it it super braids are harder then mono and even a brand new super braid will cut through guides.

Dirt has never been a issue will old time metal guides and dacron lines, and isnt a issue with super braids as even cheap inserts are many times hards Mohs hardness scale and will hold up to dirt. Although dirt will cause wear it is not the prime cause.

And while the rod building phorum has some talented builders on it it also has some talented builders on it that are professional scientist in different fields. And while peoples fame and experience drive many good building tips, many tips based on observations are just not true. Many emails fly back and forth between people who want to learn the scientific truth and are stiffled by popular beliefs and misbielfs. Good rods builders use science as much as art to build rods. You really need to look into ever avaible piece of information and form you own opinions.

Dont take my word for it, go get a piece of new superbraid and wrap it around a piece of wood and pull back and forth and watch what happerns.

And pushing even further into the subject. When a smaller diameter line rubs against a guide with the same pressure as a larger diameter line, then force on the guide is greater then the larger diameter line because it is making contact with a small portion on the insert then the larger diameter.

For a horizontal surface the horizontal force (F) to move a solid resting on a flat surface
F= μ x mass of solid x g.

To make it simple:
If 12lbs of force are applied to 0.010 (12lbtest) of surface area then the total force is
1200 pounds of force per 1" of line
If 12lbs of force are applied to 0.006 (12 lbbraid) of surface area then the total force is
2000 pounds of force per 1" of line


If we assume 1000 ft of line passes through a guide then
12lb @ 0.010 yeilds 14,400,000
while
12lb @ 0.006 yeilds 24,000,000

a net difference of 10,400,000 lbs of force.


Basically it means more wear on a guide, and we didnt even take into acount the difference in hardness.

So for everybody who doesnt care about the science of it here is a simple example. Take a fillet knife and a butter knife, which one cuts easier? The fillet knife? Why?

Because the fillet knife places more the same force on a smaller surface.

[Eric**]

I rarely use braid other then when flipping heavy veg or with scum type baits for bass.

I know its not SR fishing but I have found that braid will straighten hooks and enlarge the hole caused in the fishes mouth because it does not strectch. I also found it SUCKS around rock, flouro is more abrasion resistant, and most of it floats. Not to mention I have to believe it would spook fish in low clear water situations without the use of a long leader.

[sharkman120]

If you got to use super braid (steel cable) I do not want to be anywhere near you when your fishing the SR

[fluke]

braid and rocks don't mix well when you hook a salmon and it heads back to the lake the first rock you touch will shread the braid like paper. I love braid for light tackle jig fishing but it has no chance on the sr and will cost you a lot of fish. It just is not as forgiving as mono when it comes to rocks. Not to mention if you try to grab the line to land the fish you may lose a finger or two.