Check out Alaska site

[Steelebob]

Be sure to check out the "how to".
http://troutbeads.com

[BUdrew]

Steelebob - Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh your going to let the secrete out. I have been useing beads for the last two seasons and lets just say I'm going to be useing them for a long time to come.

All I have to say is #017 Orange Pearl in 8mm match King eggs very well

If you really want to get into bead fishing you can get yourself Pearle White 8mm beads and an assortment of nail polish and actually paint the beads on the river to match the "egg hatch." As the eggs mature and some die in the river they will change color. The trout will key in on the specific color and size . You might get a few funny looks as you whip out your nail polish on the river but 60% of the time it works every time!:crazy:

As for rigging the beads I will let you guys figure that out on your own....I'm not crazy about the method they have showen on the website. It creates way to much friction on your tipit material and leads to more break off's then hook up's. Do some research on and off the water. Figuring out what works is half the fun!

Anyone else a bead fishermen? I would love to talk shop. If you don't want to post it here throw me a PM

Good luck and happy bead fishing.

[cuz]

If I'm not mistaken, that site was posted on here not too long ago. Sorry BUDrew, the cats out of the bag!!:p LOL!

[Kal9weight]

and i believe the current issue of fly fisherman has an article on what color nail polish to paint your beads...the cat is definetly out of the bag. doesnt really matter, beads work period

[phishhead]

Kal you are correct its in that issue

[BUdrew]

and i believe the current issue of fly fisherman has an article on what color nail polish to paint your beads...the cat is definetly out of the bag. doesnt really matter, beads work period

Yep a nice little article about matching Sockeye eggs in Alaska...the rigging set up they describe works really well!

[Kal9weight]

.the rigging set up they describe


you mean a toothpick? i would hope that isnt news to anyone.

[BUdrew]

you mean a toothpick? i would hope that isnt news to anyone.


yea nothing new...its just better then the knot they have on the "Troutbeads" website

[Tempe]

OMG…the choices in tactics :faint: !
- Do you fly, spin, spey, pin, or other?
- What manufacture to use…too many to list?
- What’s your quarry…Steel, Brown, Bow, Coho, King, Atlantic, sucker, carp, other?
- What size, type, make, color hook to use?
- Line…mono, fluoro, fly, and spey, other…what about size, diameter, floating, sinking, and what about color?
- Bait…live, dead, artificial or some combination?
- If it’s live, nightwalkers, grubs, spikes, minnows?
- If it’s dead, see above, with/without salt and/or other preservatives?
- Do you fish main river, tribs, side channels, ponds, estuary, and/or bathtubs?
- Do you fish slots, runs, riffles, seams, pockets, cuts, tailouts, pools, shallows, reds?
- How high/low is the water…what about color, clarity, is it chocolate milk, gin clear, tea green, ice blue, crystal clear?
- What about sacs, color, size, species…cured or not cured…roe, fresh or not fresh, what about the type or way you cure?
- Weight…to weight or not to weight, that is the question?
- How, way, type of weight, how much…how little, is it shot, slinky, deep soft, pencil…is it tin, or (god-forbid) LEAD?
- And last but not least, if it’s artificial…power bait, fly’s (natural, spey, jigs, nymphs, streamers, buggers, egg patterns, or just plain silly), and now beads too… you’ve already got color, taste, texture, scent, size…now you want me to take bottles of nail polish, a box of toothpicks, and a assortment of beads also?

:crazy: :p : :laugh: :D :banplease:

[Kal9weight]

essentially yes...but just think, instead of having to drive an hour to hit the cabelas or gander mountain, you would be popping into every cvs looking at nailpolish. if its for fishing that doesnt make you gay, right??

[hizzy19]

and now beads too… you’ve already got color, taste, texture, scent, size…now you want me to take bottles of nail polish, a box of toothpicks, and a assortment of beads also?

:crazy: :p : :laugh: :D :banplease:


If the fish aren't biting at least you could make a pretty necklace, clean your teeth, or give all your friends manicures :woohoo: ... :o ... :crazy: ...

[mkrout]

couldn't using a bead above a hook be considered an illegal rig on the salmon river? Like using a j-plug with the hooks hanging down below.

mk

[onemorecast]

And if the fish aren't biting you can sit on the bank and sniff it:eek:

[Tempe]

...if its for fishing that doesnt make you gay, right?? Well...Not that there's anything wrong with that:laugh:

..."you could make a pretty necklace, clean your teeth, or give all your friends manicures"
Hizzy that could be gay...Not that there's anything wrong with that:laugh:

"And if the fish aren't biting you can sit on the bank and sniff it" LMAO!!!

"couldn't using a bead above a hook be considered an illegal rig on the salmon river? Like using a j-plug with the hooks hanging down below.

mk"

Finally, someone had the grapefruits to ask the legal question. I was going to, but figured I have already filled my quota for "stiring the pot" sorry Lil, just busting! :banplease:

[Lil Salmon]

LMAO! No worries Tempe. Seriously though. My dad and I read the article in Troy's Lake Ontario Outdoors about the beads and everything seems legit. Anyone care to clarify on any legal issues? Based on the article I assumed it was legal and very effective.

If you look at the cover of Issue 29 on the front page of the site you can see the headlines referring to the beads article.

http://www.lakeontariooutdoors.com

I suggest you guys pick it up if you haven't read it already. Troy does a real nice job with the magazine. Troy, Shane, Chris... any help with the beads???

-Lil'

[Lil Salmon]

... if its for fishing that doesnt make you gay, right??

Thats some funny $hit right there Kal! LMAO!:D

[hizzy19]

http://www.salmoncrazy.com/vforums/showthread.php?t=6208&highlight=trout+beads

Knew it'd been discussed here once...:)

[Kinghookjaw]

but 60% of the time it works every time!:crazy:

have u been talking to yogi bera lately? kidding aside.... my dads been using beads the past couple of years and they work good for him...the nail polish is a good idea, but i think it would be hard to find those "eggy" colors... plus, imagine the looks we will get walking into the walmart cosmetics dept.

[Bluefin]

I was shown how to fish beads Alaska style and the real dilema is in the rig itself. They put the bead on the leader and "pin" it about 2 to 4 inches above the hook with a toothpick. The idea is that the fish inhales the bead thinking it's an egg, you feel the pickup and slam the hook home. The only problem here is the toothpick lets go and the leader flosses through the teeth of the fish and slams the hook into the jaw ON THE OUTSIDE OF THE MOUTH...almost everytime. Definately legal issues with this approach in NY waters. It seems that Alaska feels anything hooked in OR outside of the mouth as long as it is close is just fine by them. I had more fun showing them how to float fish blood dot egg flys and hook 99% of everything inside of the mouth. The guide I went with on the Kenai was so impressed, he wrote to me to ask where to start looking for pinning gear.

[Lil Salmon]

Nice Blue. So basically its not really the rig that would be illegal but more or less the amount of foul hooks you will get. Did the technique work well in Alaska?

-Lil'

[BUdrew]

have u been talking to yogi bera lately? kidding aside.... my dads been using beads the past couple of years and they work good for him...the nail polish is a good idea, but i think it would be hard to find those "eggy" colors... plus, imagine the looks we will get walking into the walmart cosmetics dept.


You would be amazed at how perfectly some nail polish colors match egg colors. They even have names like "Salmon Pink" and Salmon Orange" Its crazy!. And yea if you can stand a few bad looks now and again its not a bad way to fish

[BUdrew]

In 2 years of fishing this rig I have never foul hooked a fish after it has hit the egg bead. 90% of the time the hook is on the INSIDE of the trout’s mouth along the upper jaw. Maybe one in ten fish hooked has the hook on the outside rim of the lip very close to the corner of the mouth.

Ingested hooks and fish hooked in the gills are completely eliminated. If you use a barb-less hook minimal damage is done to the fish.

I have taken all kinds of ethics classes from a philosophical stand point and I can't find anything wrong with this rig or I would simply never use it. In fact I feel that this rig acts to decrease mortality because of its consistent hooking location away from vital fish organs like the gills, tongue and throat.

It does not personally bother me and it’s legal on The Salmon River, Ontario and Erie tribs so it will be a tool in my Steel arsenal for a long time to come!

[Bluefin]

Lil,

Yes the technique does work but to me it is not much better than some of the stuff I see in Pulaski and other places. I stayed away from it because it is not in my nature to use a method that I question. Why not put the bead down at the hook and hit them inside of the mouth with a much higher percentage. I am not by any means a purist but I stopped using plugs with treble hooks in the saltwater due to the number of short stripers you end up snagging when they role on your plug. At one point on a smaller trib in AK I had a guide standing next to me that told me I wouldn't catch anything the way I was rigged...7 casts, 7 fish. This guy wants to learn more about pinning.

[Tempe]

You would be amazed at how perfectly some nail polish colors match egg colors. They even have names like "Salmon Pink" and Salmon Orange" Its crazy!

We might need consider drawing the line at having our wives/significant others picking up our special fishing tackle. :fear: :D :D

Seriously, it sounds like a deadly way to hook the outside of the mouth, which seemed to be the intention of Alaska Fish & Game, IMHO, sounds a bit problematic and a little to close to someone’s (DEC’s) legal interpretation, until I get more info, I think I'll stick with the pink worm under float.

[BUdrew]

I keep the rig on a Lindy rigger....a dozen per tube.

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c235/SLPandy/Picture022.jpg


And here it is....about a 1.5 inch gap between the size 10 scudd hook and the bead on 6lb floro. The hook is wraped in rabbit fur to simulate flesh or that milky white crap you see floating near the eggs

http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c235/SLPandy/Picture020.jpg

[phishhead]

Did anyone else notice in that article in fly fisherman that they talked about sockeye salmon will take a fly but most are taken in the mouth by "lining" the fish??? :confused: :confused:

[Lil Salmon]

Nice rig BU. Do you use the toothpick method or something else?

[BUdrew]

Nice rig BU. Do you use the toothpick method or something else?

Thanks Lil! :)

Tooth pic all the way! Its a pain in the butt but it really is the most effective. There is a knot method but it puts to much tension on the tipit and often breaks at the bead.

[phishhead]

What is the true advantage to pinning it above the hook? Like bluefin said why not just drop it on the hook???

[Kal9weight]

the main reason IMO is fish mortality...when they get dialed in on eating eggs, too many take the bead to deep...which is why the guides in alaska pin the bead up the line and subsequently hook the fish in the outside of the mouth

[BUdrew]

the main reason IMO is fish mortality...when they get dialed in on eating eggs, too many take the bead to deep...which is why the guides in alaska pin the bead up the line and subsequently hook the fish in the outside of the mouth


Yep that’s the logic behind it....your dead on. Plus if you have uber-selective/educated fish like we do out here on Erie tribs the separation of hook from egg may make the difference between a take and a refusal from a trout

[Lil Salmon]

Nice discussion guys i am learning alot....

[BUdrew]

Nice discussion guys i am learning alot....


Im proud of everyone too :) We are all behaving even though we have different views! Informative discussion is great!

[Tempe]

...subsequently hook the fish in the outside of the mouth

Not trying to take this out of context, just trying to learn. How can that be legal?

[BUdrew]

Not trying to take this out of context, just trying to learn.


Hooking a fish on the outside of the mouth happens maybe one in ten fish. Most fish are hooked on the inside lip or rim of the mouth.

I'm off to work....I will have to see where this discussion goes when I come back!

[Kal9weight]

tempe, i am only taking an educated guess at this, as i have never guided in alaska, however, if i were a guide out there i rainbow mortality would be a main concern to me, and the rationale for pegging the bead is that you get to feel the eat without having to worry about a deeply hooked rainbow. while that may or may not coincide with the nys regulations, and certain peoples ethics it is a lot different then some of the things i saw this past salmon season. and, i believe in the last time the topic of beads went around this board the way to sidestep the grey area of the regulations would be to do it budrews way and tie a little something on the hook.

[Bluefin]

The fish I saw caught using this rig in AK were more like 1 in 10 hooked inside of the mouth. Since I started pinning about 8 years ago, I can count on both hands how many fish I hooked oustside of the mouth. Before that, it was about a 50 / 50 shot. Also, in all of the years steelheading (about 10 or 11), I have never had a fish take the hook deep enough that I could not get it out and have never hooked one in the gills. Pinning isn't perfect by any stretch of the imagination but I have much better results and never worry about where the hook is going to be.

[Kal9weight]

blue, i picked up a pin outfit this year, and while this may kill hamj and other strict flyfishermen, i cant see myself using the flyrod ever again for steel ... floating is just too effective a way to present the offering.

[Tempe]

Kal, I understand Alaska's concept, I seem to recall that they are concerned that too many fish were being hooked in the month ripping up the fishes mouth, so they allowed this method because they get hooked outside of the mouth. Please understand that I am not saying that BUdrew may not be able to go 1/10 outside to inside, I just beleive that most will hook them more like what Blue states...10/1 especially if that bead climbs ever higher up the leader and away from the hook. If it is truely legal, and not a grey area intruptation, I might give it a try and check out those ratios myself...maybe! However, I too am new to pinning and can't really see any reason to switch. :)

[Kal9weight]

i fished beads a couple of times on the SR and pegged the bead a couple inches from a small soft egg pattern... with that being said, i cant give you a 1:10 or 10:1 ratio, as i believe i have only hooked 3 or 4 fish while fishing the bead. and when you run another fly under the bead there is no way to know for sure which one got eaten...

[frank arendt]

Excuse mr gentleman,but I get the uneasy feeling that might be a tad illegal to use on the Salmon River,looks an awful like snagging..Can we have a legal opinion on it's use???I'd be very uneasy to have the DEC spot anybody using that rig...frank

[Ditchrat]

Excuse mr gentleman,but I get the uneasy feeling that might be a tad illegal to use on the Salmon River,looks an awful like snagging..Can we have a legal opinion on it's use???I'd be very uneasy to have the DEC spot anybody using that rig...frank

This is not a legal opinion but...

1) regs state that the hook on a floating lure must be no more then 1" from the lure. Some of the bead I have float.....
2) Regardless of your opinion on this, and regardless of the fact that the fish hit something (the egg) hooking fish using this methoed fits the definition of linning.

This is my understanding after talking to a DEC officer. I have been using beads for 15 years and then stopped last year after asking an officer about it. Since then I have had a hard time not using them but......

On the flip side since I have never had a steelie deep throat a fly, i now heat up a hook and melt it into the bead and use it as a proper fly, although still not alowed to use them in the fly sections...

[frank arendt]

Now that is a classy answer!!! I agree,when it's an uneasy feeling,it just takes the joy out of the pleasure of fishing our beloved river,and fabulous fish...thank you...frank

[Fish doctor]

Boy, I love this site.

[mikefishon]

lmao:D

[toolmaker66]

If you really want to get into bead fishing you can get yourself Pearle White 8mm beads and an assortment of nail polish and actually paint the beads on the river to match the "egg hatch." As the eggs mature and some die in the river they will change color. The trout will key in on the specific color and size . You might get a few funny looks as you whip out your nail polish on the river but 60% of the time it works every time!:crazy:



Or you can get craydaddy to pick it up for you. After all this is the guy who carries a pink hairdrier and a makeup purse :bolt: What would a little nail polish do to ruin "his" reputation???

As long as he hook is no farther than 1 1/2" from the bead I believe that the DEC wouldn't find a problem with your setup.

[mikefishon]

now that priceless :worthy:

[flyguy]

On the flip side since I have never had a steelie deep throat a fly, i now heat up a hook and melt it into the bead and use it as a proper fly, although still not alowed to use them in the fly sections...

Exactly! The justification for the rig in Alaska is that the native RT get to be gorging on eggs (usually sockeye) so deep-hooking is an issue, the the reason for intentionally hooking them on the outside of the mouth. No doubt those fish take the bead as an egg.

[Craydaddy]

Or you can get craydaddy to pick it up for you. After all this is the guy who carries a pink hairdrier and a makeup purse :bolt: What would a little nail polish do to ruin "his" reputation???

As long as he hook is no farther than 1 1/2" from the bead I believe that the DEC wouldn't find a problem with your setup.

I am going to beat you next time I see you!!!!!!!!!!!:whip: :D

I used beads this year for the first time but under a float on my pin. I put the bead right at the top of the hook. :)

[Steelebob]

Do you fish them using the same techniques with 6mm beads?

[Craydaddy]

Sam rig as I would use to float an egg sac. :D I was jsut messing around and they produced fish.

They worked buy my glue eggs have yet to produce a fish. :(