Just wondering what others thought

[speytard]

Next Guide's bobber went down, FISH-ON! Then he hands me the rod, and I got to land it.:D
We ended the day at the 81 bridge hole, Guide hooked into a few, and almost got one in. But then again, his bobber was going down all day.
We had a great day, weather was rough, but as long as Guide didn't mind, neither did we. Guide knows his stuff, works his A$$ off to get you into fish, and above all, enjoys his job!

I must be missing something here - maybe I'm all wet.

I wouldn't be paying a guide to fish.. I would expect him to be teaching me and showing me what to do, where and why. I definetly wouldn't want him to hook and hand off (which seems to be the practice of some guides you see on the SR). What do you get out of that? Paying a guide fish all day? Does that help you fish on you own when they are not around? I don't think so..

Not trying to blast anyone just a general thing you see alot of on the river and some guy's are happy with that..

[Catmandu]

If the client doesnt have a problem with it, then I dont think it matters. I personally booked with gottum(shane) in the past and am going again with him this Friday. Last time I was aboard the caddy, I demanded that he fished. Its not all about who catches the fish, its about learning new water and techniques, things that GOOD guides are willing to teach. JMO.

[gebbyfish]

I would be careful about bashing gottum, though I don't think that's the intent of your post. If you hang out on the site long enough, you'll find out that he is a well-respected guide and frequent contributor to the site.

I agree with you that a guide should not be planning on fishing when taking out clients.......unless, that is what the clients want. I know I read some etiquette article in flyfisherman magazine years ago that went over this, among other things. I think that there are some guide-client relationships that evolve into friendships over years and trips may become more of two friends fishing, rather than a client being guided. I wasn't there with newbieking, so I don't know what the arrangement for the day was.

Paul

[scottyfishon/offcreature]

I used Shane for 6 years now and he teaches you but somedayS you can't catchim they are in the seam you have been fishing. SHANE KNOWS THIS LETS CALL IT EXPERIENCE!! sO HE PICKS UP A RODS AND YOU WATCH THE REEL MASTER. oNE MAYBE TWO CASTS WACK!!! FISH ON. i WAS WATCHING HIM DO IT I LEARN JUST AS WELL WATCHING AS I DO LISTINING. I WATCH HIS TECHIQUE AN THE NEXT SEAM WACK IGOT ONE MYSELF THATS HOW I LEARN!!! THERE IS LEARNING IN HOW TO FIGHT THE FISH AND NET THE FISH SO AFTER THE HAND OFF THERE IS STILL ALOT OF TEACHING GOING ON IN SHANE'S BOAT THANKS BUT I STILL SAY THEIR IS NO BETTER GUIDE ON THE RIVER!!!:cool:

[woolybugger65]

i often wonder where this line should be drawn. i know several guides on this site that fish with their clients. i think the only reason they do this is because they know that there clients are doing the correct thing (fundamentally). me personally, i don't have a problem with a guide fishing. in fact, when my brother and i had gottum last month i asked him to fish with us. i wouldn't have taken the hand-off. gottum had hooked up (and boated) in our last stop and i learned so much by watching him fight that fish, it was incredible. i will always have a mental picture of how he handled the reel. something you wouldn't read in a magazine article in my opinion. i used his fighting technique, with the pin, the next day and landed my hen.
if we fish a spot (2 rods working) with no success i would feel better knowing that a 3rd rod (the guide) covered it as well, without a bite.
just to note that shane never asked to fish along with us, we had asked him to join the fun.
WB65

[Browntrout5]

I would think learning from example is the best and only way to go. I personally would rather watch someone than try to figure out what they are talking about.

[metalhead]

I have fished with GET THE NET for over 8 years now. Every time we go out I make sure he fishes too. You would really be surprised what you can learn by watching one of these professionals at work. I figure if he is out there with me he might as well fish too. If he does hook something he knows not to even try and give me his rod, as that is his fish. I have no problem with that because I always catch fish too. He is an excellant teacher and I have no problem giving him referals. There is some guids that opperate in Pulaski that I would NEVER even think about giving my hard earned money to. But there is also others such as Get The Net(Chris), Gottum(Shane) and Paul's Guide Service that are well worth every penny you spend to hire them!!!


Just my $0.02:)

[HeavyA]

I've found it always pays to have another rod in the water, especially in the hands of someone who knows what he's doing. It lets you try other colors, baits, presentations, etc. that you might not have tried otherwise. As long as the clients' needs are taken care of and there is room in the hole, I see no problem with a guide fishing.

[KingofKings]

Speytard,
Try looking at this with an open mind. I fished the entire time on the boat. And so did Griz104. Gottum worked his butt off setting us up, re-rigging us, telling us AND showing us how to read where fish were holding. He did his job as a guide 10 times over, the entire 10 hours on the boat. Now when our lines are all set, and we are fishing, you are saying you would want a guide to sit there and watch. Now for someone that loves the sport, as I assume you do, that is crazy and a little selfish(not to mention torture WATCHING others fish). Of course this is all my opinion. Gottum is an amazing guide, but along with that, he is a great fishing buddy and it didn't take long to realize that. I liked when I was fishing a spot, and I wasn't getting anything. Then he would show me where the seam is, and get me back on track. My bobber went down(numerous times), but I was asleep at the reel, and missed it.
The point is I learned alot, had fun, caught some fish, learned alot, learned alot, and learned alot. Yes, he hooked the first fish..........and.....it was still one heck of a fight getting it in, and I did so successfully with his coaching me. I didn't plan on gettting a hand off, but if I didn't take it, and that was the only chance I got at wrestling one all day, I would have been kicking myself later. And if you wouldn't take it, good for you, but I did, and I will next time I go with him and he offers me the rod. But we got into them again, so no harm done. He never picked up a rod until we insisted, so we insisted as soon as we were in the water!
Book a trip sometime, you may feel differently afterwards, if not, to each his own.

[steelnewbie]

I fished with Gottum (Shane) on February 11th. I've been a bottom bouncer for the 2 years I've been heading up to the Salmon River. I was doing my thing on the bottom with my gear, while Gottum (Shane) was using the float.
I hooked and landed a couple of fish on the bottom, but I never would have tried the float if I hadn't seen Gottum land one first! It made me want to try the float. Browntrout is right, visuals are far easier to understand than instructions. I watched, learned, and landed 3 on the float myself.


I say if the client doesn't mind the guide fishing, and I certainly didn't, then what's the problem?


Gottum, keep doing what you're doing because it works!!!!

[Ditchrat]

I would be careful about bashing *****, though I don't think that's the intent of your post. If you hang out on the site long enough, you'll find out that he is a well-respected guide and frequent contributor to the site.

He brings up a good point, and a good question and I dont think we should discourage him from asking it. Some people want guides to fish and some dont. Personally I never fished when i guided the cape, at least never with a hook on. I limited myself to using hookless lures to search for fish, or to tease fish up to the top and in, and not take a chance of hooking that one fish in the rip, or the one 30+lber that the client should catch. However fishing a river is a much different thing, lots more water to cover to find holding fish, so who knows. Some people need a boat driver, some need a teacher and some just need a guide. Sometimes they need all three, I guess its totally up to the client to choose what the guide does, since he is the one paying out the money.

[KingofKings]

Well-put ditch

[griz104]

Personaly i would have been mad at myself if Gottum did not fish with us! He went way above and beyond what i even expected of him!! I am a bottom bouncer and will remain one for many more years but had a open enough mind to watch Shane fish with his bobber's....errrr floats. He is very good at what he does and i learned quite a bit just watching him! Not once did he ever not answer a question with knoweledge but he explained it to detail! I needed more pratice tying on hooks and such and Shane even did that for me. I did not expect him to even do that! Myself, i do not care who the guide is but i want them to also have fun. That is why we are all out there any way. Just watching Shane get excited about hooking a fish is something to behold. As long as he has been doing it and to still get that excited. He can fish with me any day!!!

[KingofKings]

Now that's what I like to hear buddy :woohoo:

[gottum]

I guess he got his answer;)
Not much need for me to defend my position on this one.
Thanks guys!
After a 5 long tough days in MISERABLE weather this made my day.:woohoo:

[the happy salmon]

I wouldnt want it anyother way! watching your guide fish is watching an expert on thier turf!!!! you can learn a TON from watching them! that is a no brainer!:D

[ecsteelheader]

I wouldnt want it anyother way! watching your guide fish is watching an expert on thier turf!!!! you can learn a TON from watching them! that is a no brainer!:D

Bingo!!!! You hit it right on the nose>))>

[fishon1954]

4 yrs ago my buddy & I hired Randy Jones on the recommendation of Kathy from the now closed Pulaski Pizza to learn the PROPER way to fish for Steelhead using flies on spinning & fly rods.
After years of time & money spent trying on our own & hooking up mostly by accident,we decided to take an early December drift trip.
Our goal. To watch,listen & learn.
Randy ran a few drifts that day,only to keep showing us what we were NOT doing right. I remember he hooked up a couple of times & quickly broke off on purpose.
We asked Randy to fish with us,but he declined.He said he can fish anytime he wants.His goal was to teach us & he can't do that properly if he's fishing too.
It's a good thing he didn't fish,because once we got the the hang of things he was too busy getting fish to the net.
My personal feeling is that I'm hiring a guide to teach me & get me to where the fish are.I'm not hiring a fishing buddy.

[onemorecast]

I was going to put a long reply in but everyone already covered it all.So I'll just say that some people just don't get it.

[the happy salmon]

get what??? we want to know what you are thinking.....

[the happy salmon]

I'm not hiring a fishing buddy.Well thats where you are WRONG!!!!! my guides are my fishing BUDDIES!!!! thats why you will only get the generic version.... i get all the good inside info! but hurray for me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! keep that attitude and you can fish by yourself anytime you want!!!!!!

[onemorecast]

I only went with a guide once and that was a long time ago.This year I went with Shane and had a great time,learned some new water and a new technique.After him SHOWING me, it was very easy to pick up.We then fished the rest of the day together because thats what I wanted.He always had me drift the run several times before he would even pick up a rod, even when I told him to fish.After just the 1st hour it was like fishing with one of my buddies,breaking some balls and laughing all day.I will be going again in the future to fish with a NEW FRIEND.

[bigbear]

Personally i'm a hands on learner. I know how to fish my home waters, learned from YEARS of experimenting and observation. When i go to a new area that i have no experience with and the fishing is different i think hiring a guide is logical. As said on here many times,"it cuts years off the learning curve". We all want to catch fish, so hire the guide. Let him do his job and teach you how to fish.
In my case that means SHOW me how to do it. So a guide fishing with the client is great, because it teaches the client. Now if the guide is only fishing and not trying to teach or show you how to do it, thats a problem. But them fishing with you is a great way to teach.
They will show you more than you ever could learn by just doing your own thing and slapping the water.;)

[CTChrome]

I'm split on this one guys, if the clients ask the guide to fish I would say its ok, I know that some times I've asked my guide to fish with us, I don't agree with the hook and hand technique, If the guide is fishing with you and hooks a fish, let him land it.

[fishon1954]

I'm not knocking anyone that wants their guide to fish along with them.Nor the guide that does fish.As BigBear said I learn by watching more than listening.And we learned the correct way to drift a fly,breaking bad habits in the interim by watching Randy drift a few.Then he turned the show over to us,verbally correcting our mistakes.
If you hired a guide to hunt ANYWHERE,that guide is not going to shoot for you or along side of you.His job is to get you where you need to be & tell you what you need to do to succeed.Not shoot for you.
If you've become personal friends with a particular fishing guide,that's your business.As for hiring a "generic" guide,I'd recommend Randy to anyone.He knows every rock,hole & seam in the SR along with what flie to tie on & what size to use.
I'm not knocking the guides on here & the ones that aren't.I've never fished with any of them & I'm sure they know their stuff or they wouldn't be in business very long.
But that's all it is in the end.BUSINESS.
Once a year,in the fall I can get my Son & Daughter to come to the SR for Salmon.They're both in their 20's & really don't care if they ever fish or not.They go for me.I guide them.Yes,I take the rod & drift a few drifts.Mainly to feel for bottom & remind them AGAIN how to properly drift the fly.But I tie the rigs & get the net.Not fish.My job is ensure they enjoy themselves & in return I enjoy myself watching them.
My girlfriend has been going with me for 2 years.FINALLY,this year she listened to what I've been trying to teach & show her,and hooked & landed her own Salmon.
As for fishing alone.If I do,it's by choice.2 fishing partners besides my kids or girlfriend at one time is all I can handle.They all keep me LMAO

[the happy salmon]

It is what it is.... sounds like a knock to me.

[cuz]

If you hired a guide to hunt ANYWHERE,that guide is not going to shoot for you or along side of you.His job is to get you where you need to be & tell you what you need to do to succeed.Not shoot for you.[/CODE]

I've never fished with a guide on the Salmon River, but when the time comes, I'll know where to turn. All these Salmon Crazies can't be wrong. I haven't heard a bad word about any of the guides who visit this site. You're comparing apples to oranges! There's a BIG difference between hunting and fishing guides.
Just my two cents.

[fishon1954]

First off,let me make this VERY CLEAR. I AM NOT KNOCKING ANYONE ON THIS SITE.I thought we all were entitled to our opinion ???
Yes,hunting & fishing are complete opposites.But the job is the same for the guide.
If your out 1/1 fishing with a guide & you want him to fish,so be it.
Just remember he's getting paid & fishing.Your paying to fish.

[onemorecast]

Personally I would never take a handoff from anyone, I've put in many years of this and if I can't catch them that day then oh well thats fishing.However if someone is new to game and hasn't fought alot of these beast before, getting a handoff and learning the right way to fight them is not a bad thing is it.Maybe the next time they go on their own and hook one they might have a chance, then maybe keep coming back to support the local business.

[psac]

Who cares? The guide should do whatever you want them to as long as its legal. If your guide casts and hooks a fish and hands you the rod, so what? What's the difference in plugging? Same thing isn't it? The guide positions the boat, he works the plugs, the fish hooks itself, you reel. I guess it comes down to what you want to do. If you want to learn the river and all its little crevices, get a teaching guide. If you want to go for a boat ride, have a few beers, and maybe catch a fish, you can do that to. I've been w/ Shane and others. I ask as many questions as I can, b/c I want to learn. Shane has never not answered a question. He might get annoyed b/c I never shut the hell up, but you get out of it what you put into it.

[Ditchrat]

Who cares? .

Well its winter and they isnt anything to talk about. Its the point of a discussion board to let people new and old bring up topics to talk about? So I say discuss it to death............

[hizzy19]

I think this view of the situation is getting beat into the ground here, but hey... To each his own... If I'm paying a guy $300 to take me fishing, I'm going to get out of it what I put into it. But my idea of getting something out of it might be completely different from yours, or someone who just wants to feel what it's like to fight a steelhead... Regardless of if they hooked or the guide did. Or someone who just wants to have their picture taken with a big fish, or someone who just wants to go on an expensive boat ride... If you have become good friends with a guide, of course you will hire them over anyone else, because you know you will have a good time regardless of fish caught, and your money is never wasted. All I can say is, nobody is wrong here...

[the happy salmon]

I've been w/ Shane . He might get annoyed b/c I never shut the hell upyou too, i thought it was just me!!! LMAO!!!!! he is always yelling at me to pay attention while i am YAPPPIN AWAY!!!!!!:D

[the happy salmon]

If I'm paying a guy $300 to take me fishing, I'm going to get out of it what I put into it. 300$.... who are you fishing with, larry ZONKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:eek:

[Ditchrat]

]
You're comparing apples to oranges! There's a BIG difference between hunting and fishing guides.
Just my two cents.

I think comparing salmon river guiding to other river guiding is comparing apples to oranges. The salmon is high pressure fishing and sometimes it takes a guides skills just to show that there are fish eager to bite. Im sorry but the truth is hire a guide on a western river or overseas and they would be skinned alive for fishing when a client is on board. Guides have to position a drift boat so you can cast to the bank on most rivers in the world, and that style fishing isnt done on the salmon. On the salmon drift boats either are used to pull plugs or they are floating taxi's. The boats on the upper river stop at each hole and hammer the fish, then move to the next hole. I.E. the school house pool, I mean the school house marinia. I cant tell you how many times I've watch boats pull plugs down the center of the barrel hole, when nobody else was around and the clients could have easily cast spinners, plugs, sacks or whatever to the water as the boat back oared. The fact is guides on other types of water are just to busy working to fish, not because they are harder working but simply because there is more that they need to do. Not like the salmon where you see guides sitting around on the bank watching clients, or fishing next to them and handing off fish. Half the guides on the salmon have zero clue other then salmon/steelhead fishing. And its a shame because the river has some talented people fishing it and the bad rep ends up putting its stink on them. Judging by the replies it seems more people need a teacher then a guide, and thats fine too.


300$.... who are you fishing with, larry ZONKA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Thats what you pay on a real river where there isnt a dozen or so people stuggling to make a living off of 3 months and what ever they can drum up during the cold month. The good guides are under paid, because there is too many hack guides and not enough work

here happy western rates http://www.montanatrout.com/mts/rates.htm

http://www.beardsleyfishhuntmt.com/Rates.htm

Didnt you know happy, the salmon is the Little leigh of NY.

[the happy salmon]

i didnt know that?:rolleyes: :eek: :puke:

[scottyfishon/offcreature]

Hooking a fish is only the beginning!!
Over the last 6 years I have taken 20 to 30 people up to the SR FOR SALMON season all newbies. Don't get me wrong these guys are very good fisherman, and all fish often on their local streams with great success. But the SR is about trophy size fishing. Anyone can land the 12" but can they do the same withthe 12 lbder to 25 lbder.???
That is where learning the HOW TO FIGHT THE FISH AND GET THE FISH TO THE BOAT or shore IS SO IMPORTANT. there is a technique. And i would and still do take a hand-off and learn something new everytime. I don't understand why you would have an ego and be so selfcentered to think it is only about hooking a fish.
You have to know, Shane does this to help you learn and to get you in ready for when you hook one you can land it. It is only practice and the more you practice the better you get that what I am paying for is to get better at successful fishing. :D
Not just hooking FISH-ON FISH-OFF!!! STUFF.
Say what you will but if i am paying for it i do not have a problem learning via the hook and hand off technique!! Especially early in a trip and or on a hard day when the fish have been hard to come by. On day two of my trips we do very little of this because we practiced on day one!!!:rant:
I have six big trophy fish mounted on my walls at home because off Shane's techniques of teaching and I caught them all myself and that is the true reward of fishing with a guide who teachs you knot only how to hook a a trophy size fish but how to land that same fish!!!!:yell: .

[Linescreamer]

Quote:
<TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">If you hired a guide to hunt ANYWHERE,that guide is not going to shoot for you or along side of you.His job is to get you where you need to be & tell you what you need to do to succeed.Not shoot for you.[/CODE </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
]

I've never fished with a guide on the Salmon River, but when the time comes, I'll know where to turn. All these Salmon Crazies can't be wrong. I haven't heard a bad word about any of the guides who visit this site. You're comparing apples to oranges! There's a BIG difference between hunting and fishing guides.
Just my two cents.


That's becuase you haven't been on the site long enough! When there are guides posting on the site that we will not endorse, you will hear it! They don't seem to stay on here long after that :( .

[scottyfishon/offcreature]

Hizzy19 Great way to put it !! Good Answer:woohoo:

[KingofKings]

This has gotten long, but still interesting!
I have fished since I was a kid, local waters, etc. I fish all spring and summer. But this is my first Salmon/Steelhead season. I can catch a fish, I catch them all of the time. I don't understand why everyone is making such a big deal about a hand-off. It really is no different than plugging. Happy Salmon and Scotty fishon/fishoff seem to be the only ones that see at the exact same level as I do. But nothing is wrong with that. I would have to assume that they have been out with Gottum. I didn't go out for an expensive boat ride, or to get my picture taken with some HOGS(could have done that at the bar:D ). I went out to learn, and I told him this. If we caught fish it was a bonus. I needed to work on my drift, and actually practice with floats. I got to know what I was doing wrong. We plugged maybe 20 minutes all day. But, I hadn't done that before successfully, so that too was a learning experience.
I am VERY...let's say...thrifty! My money doesn't stack that fast, but when I have it I don't waste it. The first thing I said to my wife when I got home is "That was money well spent". Not " I caught a hog".
Maybe from now on I should just leave basic reports, I was just trying to let others know how the day went. Will I stop with the descriptive reports...nope! Analyze the crap out of them if you want:D because they are still going up:woohoo:

Thanks for all the different opinions, make the site interesting:bolt:

[KingofKings]

Look.......we beat 5 pages worth out of this:wave:

[speytard]

Good point about about out west and the guides are not allowed to fish by law, NYS should pass the same law..

ok, one more question for you guys who are in favor of this...

With declining number of steelhead returning to the rivers and creeks over the past 10 years (excluding minor increase in numbers this year), and the one steelhead limit per angler, Do you agree that the Guide should not add his limit to the daily catch?

[KingofKings]

NYS should pass the same law...IN YOUR OPINION;) :D

Guides' limit shouldn't be included unless he is keeping the fish himself, not sure if that's what you were asking though. After all he is an angler right?!

[goat ball]

Good point about about out west and the guides are not allowed to fish by law, NYS should pass the same law..

ok, one more question for you guys who are in favor of this...

With declining number of steelhead returning to the rivers and creeks over the past 10 years (excluding minor increase in numbers this year), and the one steelhead limit per angler, Do you agree that the Guide should not add his limit to the daily catch?

I agree that a guide should not add to the limit. It can never be enforced and would never be a law IMO. Then again, I am all for a law stating Catch and Release only for trout on all LO tribs.

[hizzy19]

Is this going to turn into a discussion on guide ethics? I've never used a river guide before, will be giving it a shot in april... I, personally, would not be all about taking a hand-off from the guide, simply because my only purpose for hiring a guide is so that I can better myself. My buddy on the other hand is not a member of fish-a-holics anonymous, and is basically going because he just wants to catch a fish and will be anxiously awaiting a hand-off... Is that wrong???:confused:

[KingofKings]

Hey, If I was embarrassed about it, I would have excluded it from the report. I don't and never have counted it as my fish. But I guess I am just half the man as I was before I took the hand-off. I can live with that....can all of you...LMAO:humble:

[scottyfishon/offcreature]

NOPE !! Not wrong At all. The point here is that it is obviously about the individual anglar and his level of experience and knowledge!!! :jawdrop:

[Linescreamer]

Good point about about out west and the guides are not allowed to fish by law, NYS should pass the same law..

ok, one more question for you guys who are in favor of this...

With declining number of steelhead returning to the rivers and creeks over the past 10 years (excluding minor increase in numbers this year), and the one steelhead limit per angler, Do you agree that the Guide should not add his limit to the daily catch?

Now you are starting to sound like a guide who posted on this site in years past. We should make personal profile info mandatory to join ;) !

[scottyfishon/offcreature]

NOTHING WRONG WITHA HAND OFF!!! you got to fight the fish!!!LOL:D

[bigbear]

no hizzy it ain't wrong
as with any opinion eveyone is allowed to have their own, at least that is until our beloved governing body decided that freedom is great in theory, but as they often do, not good in practice and so they "protect" by making laws that take all of that nasty opinion and free will out of life and living!!:rolleyes: :crazy:
as far as hand offs go, it is not wrong for the guide to offer.........some people come to catch fish and that is why they hired the guide.....so it is up to the individual as to taking the hand off or not:) there is no right or wrong in that case, only how YOU feel about it.
i know my girlfriend was happy to take a hand off from shane and play it, and i was happy to sit and watch it, but i didn't and wouldn't take it myself, but i was happy he asked
in my opinion, good guides are great teachers, good ethical people and have one of the hardest jobs around...........not only are the conditions constantly changing, but they also have to tread very lightly on peoples feelings......and many people are nothing more than A-holes!!! and to try and deal with them and make them happy is a thankless, very difficult task

So to recap,:woohoo:
Everyone has an opinion
No-ones is right or wrong
Everyone has the right to choose (atleast for now:crazy: )

[KingofKings]

Well next time I am on the river I feel more well-rounded if you will, to present my bait in a way that a fish would prefer. Maybe something over 1lb-2lbs. will strike

[KingofKings]

So to sum it all up, I am like BigBears' girlfriend:humble:
J/k BB, couldn't resist;)

[bigbear]

lmfao:D

[woolybugger65]

Didnt you know happy, the salmon is the Little leigh of NY.

hey ditch, now you struck a nerve with me!! :D

[stackmend]

Guides fishing--up to each client (except on DSR)
Hook and hand-- up to the client
Guides should not be allowed to keep fish while guiding(guide +2 clients=2 steelhead limit)
As to the SR guides hitting a hole working it then moving on to fish the next- I see way more that park for the day(sometimes within sight of the launch) and then row to the take out. I have in fact seen them go back to the RT52 bridge and take out there. Entire float trip 100 yards down and walk back to the launch while the guide waded the boat back up the edge and rowed across to the launch.
Just my opinions but like A-holes everyone has one and these are mine.

[CTChrome]

as far the guide not being able to keep a fish to add to angler limit, I have no problem with that, personally I kept one fish last year and every thing else went back. I understand that there is an issue with fish returning to the river and in favor limiting take, I would have liked to see a season limit, where a stamp or tag would have to be purchased and would have been limited to only some many fish for a whole year, I know i got a little off topic:focus:

[scottyfishon/offcreature]

:rant: :yell: :rant: :yell: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Great talkin to you guys!!!

[Tiderunner]

Good point about about out west and the guides are not allowed to fish by law, NYS should pass the same law..

ok, one more question for you guys who are in favor of this...

With declining number of steelhead returning to the rivers and creeks over the past 10 years (excluding minor increase in numbers this year), and the one steelhead limit per angler, Do you agree that the Guide should not add his limit to the daily catch?

I'm all for not aggregating the limit. Not sure if such a law would pass or not, but what the heck. They are FINALLY going to up the size limit on steelhead taken in the lake, that will stop the slaughter of small fish that happens over on the west end.

One good thing is, less and less people are into killing fish. I still think you should be able to keep on from time to time though. No problem with c&r on steelhead, but I see no issues with the BT populations that make me want to turn all "trout" c&r. since squeezin brownies is usually held illegal, even in the absence of a direct law, it falls under "undue stress"

Oh well. Not a bad dialogue here. There are opinions all around. Good to see people are doing their best at keeping this civil. Asking an unpopular question shouldn't promote mudslinging (maybe some spirited disagreement)

Oh, and on the guide's fishing thing, well, I spend my time on lower river reaches where guide's can't fish for clients anyway. Funny how all the guides seem to avoid it like the plauge :confused: It can't be that hard to show your client how and where to cast with instruction rather than fish for them. No knock on those that don't, so please, no panty-bunching:whip:

[stackmend]

Hmmmm, about the size increase stopping the slaughter out west. The proposed increase is to 21 inches not to 25 inches which is what the DEC's own stats show is the point most steelhead mature and make thier first spawning run. Therefore the mayhem continues on the lake. Oh ya on the lake its still kill 3 if you can catch them.

[Tiderunner]

good point.
most of the boats out in WNY are catching fish less than 21" hopefully that will put them off the "easy steelhead bite" Imagine chartering a trip and filling the box with 15" steelhead:confused: anything that potentially helps there to be more fish in the tribs is a step in the right direction

[woolybugger65]

mysteriously enough none of the guides have actually chimed in on their opinion on all of this. come on boys, gottum, get the net, stonefly, steelie11, and others not mentioned, let's hear it.
aaaaah shoot, their prolly out on the river anyway while we are all working like dogs.

[KingofKings]

C'mon now, I think in most of this weather, they are the one's working like dogs!

[ecsteelheader]

Good point about about out west and the guides are not allowed to fish by law, NYS should pass the same law..

ok, one more question for you guys who are in favor of this...

With declining number of steelhead returning to the rivers and creeks over the past 10 years (excluding minor increase in numbers this year), and the one steelhead limit per angler, Do you agree that the Guide should not add his limit to the daily catch?

Ive done several driftboat trips in my life,,,And ive seen my hired guide fish a few times
SO WHAT!!!! Watch and learn,And never have they kept a fish.
As far as them handing off a fish whoop tee doo,my god you act like its a sin.... Easy remedy for you is dont do a drift trip or tell your guide before hand,,,"don't fish on my time"...>))>

[KingofKings]

Ive done several driftboat trips in my life,,,And ive seen my hired guide fish a few times
SO WHAT!!!! Watch and learn,And never have they kept a fish.
As far as them handing off a fish whoop tee doo,my god you act like its a sin.... Easy remedy for you is dont do a drift trip or tell your guide before hand,,,"don't fish on my time"...>))>

^^^^
I like this guy...right to the point!

[stackmend]

Make a point to be at the Pineville ramp from about 2'oclock til 5'oclock and count the number of fish for each boat. Guides regularly keep fish on thier limit for thier clients. This is especialy true during the salmon season but holds true during the steelhead run also. Some are now coming to understand that the steelhead you killed on your limit today to satisfy a sport is not thier tomorrow and real full time guides have to satisfy customers every day.

[moetown]

First off,let me make this VERY CLEAR. I AM NOT KNOCKING ANYONE ON THIS SITE.I thought we all were entitled to our opinion ???
Yes,hunting & fishing are complete opposites.But the job is the same for the guide.
If your out 1/1 fishing with a guide & you want him to fish,so be it.
Just remember he's getting paid & fishing.Your paying to fish.
guides get paid to teach u how to fish not take time out of your paying day to fish let them do it on there time not ours this has to stop

[hizzy19]

guides get paid to teach u how to fish not take time out of your paying day to fish let them do it on there time not ours this has to stop

What is the argument here??? Everything that has been stated on here is based on our opinions of what kind of service a client should expect from a guide... As a client, it should be your call... I don't know of any guides that will not acknowledge the paying clients' request to either fish or to not fish... I do agree however that it should be against the law for a guide to add his limit to the day's catch...

[cuz]

Well said Hizzy!! I believe this topic has been beat to death:bolt:

[scottyfishon/offcreature]

When I hire a guide fora 6-8 hour drift boat trip and we limit out SIX salmon in the first 45 minutes of the trip. Which has happened in the estuary. Why should we lock up the guide for being fair and courtious to his clients!!!
This is for salmon and not steelhead I think steelies should be protected. by the limit they have in place now!!! But salmon die anyways. Please give me your thoughts?:confused: :sorry: :eek: :)

[Tiderunner]

I believe the limit issue was more a question about steelhead, not salmon.

As far as guides not chiming in, that's just going to start a major guide war, because many guides do not hook and hand, and pride themselves, but don't want to get into this debate because a preponderance of the outspoken opinion is in favor of those guides who do hook and hand. Sort of like being a yankee fan in boston...

[hizzy19]

I believe the limit issue was more a question about steelhead, not salmon.

Yes

[Housatonicangler]

Oh, here we go...hard to take a discussion seriously when the old "they die anyways" comes up.

[scottyfishon/offcreature]

Take out the "they are going to die anyways" Part and give your opinion on the ethics of the guide keepin a fish or two for a client in a situation as described above. Was the guide wrong because [B]IFB] there was a LAW then, the trip would have ended when the 6th thirty pound fish was hauled into the boat in only 45 minutes. Donot get me wrong it was a great trip, and I am not a HOG. but we could fish a few more hours if the guide could use his limit??? :wave: :wave: :faint: I

[PSUnitro]

When I hire a guide fora 6-8 hour drift boat trip and we limit out SIX salmon in the first 45 minutes of the trip. Which has happened in the estuary. I don't see a problem with fishin for another hour and keeping one extra fish because of the time thing. Then calling it a day. Why should we lock up the guide for being fair and courtious to his clients!!!
This is for salmon and not steelhead I think steelies should be protected. by the limit they have in place now!!! But salmon die anyways. Please give me your thoughts?:confused: :sorry: :eek: :)

Scotty,

Just don't get caught with that fish in your cooler by the DEC. Even if someone gives it to you. Technically you are breaking a DEC regulation by having that 1 extra fish even if it is given to you. The daily posession limit is 3 per angler.

Steelhead need to be protected further than the 3 per man per trip in the lake until we (DEC, Biologists, Fisherpeople, and Investors to the fishing community) can figure out why the returns are so poor. The Protection that is in the public forum stage now does not do that. The current limit of 3 fish does nothing to help the situation. A limit of 1 fish will save in the neighborhood of 20 something percent, and an increase to the minimum size to 24 inches will save near 60% of the fish that are creeled in the lake.

I have voiced my opinion against the new reg to hopefully have the chance to work with the DEC to bring the minimum size to at least 24 inches, if not 1 fish and 24 inches.

[hizzy19]

I don't want anyone to take offense here, but I have eaten the freshest Lake O King Salmon, and it still tasted like garbage... My question is, what do you do with 200 lbs of nasty mudshark?? :puke:

[speytard]

Take out the "they are going to die anyways" Part and give your opinion on the ethics of the guide keepin a fish or two for a client in a situation as described above. Was the guide wrong because there was a LAW then, the trip would have ended when the 6th thirty pound fish was hauled into the boat in only 45 minutes. Donot get me wrong it was a great trip, and I am not a HOG. but we could fish a few more hours if the guide could use his limit??? :wave: :wave: :faint: I
NYS Guides Assocation code of ethics says -

Trophies and Limits
I will never fill a client's game tag or limit of fish or game.

Here's the link for more on it..
http://www.nysoga.com/codeofethics.html

[KingofKings]

I have always heard the fresh ones from the lake are GRRRRREAT!
Never tried them myself though

[Ditchrat]

mysteriously enough none of the guides have actually chimed in on their opinion on all of this. come on boys, gottum, get the net, stonefly, steelie11, and others not mentioned, let's hear it.
aaaaah shoot, their prolly out on the river anyway while we are all working like dogs.

Guides shouldnt chime in either. They make a living off their reputations and we sould expect them to risk offending a potential client by doing so. Just to add to the discussion on our behalf. Frankly I think it would be selfish for us to expect them too or to use them as an example.

The fact and the law is simple. If you hook a fish and hand it off it count towards both of your limits. If you give away a fish it counts towards both ofyour limit. If you give it to them in the parking lot it counts towards both of your limits. End of story, if you get caught doing it pay the fine, if a guide gets caught they should lose their lisence. If you get caught taking trout from private property in PA you get charged with theft. If you get caught with more then your limit then you should get charged with theft also, because your stealing from the pubic.

As for taking a hand off. If you have to take a hand off from a guide you are cheating at the sport, no different then using bait in a artificals only section, or coping somebodies else's work. You didnt accomplish it yourself. It is the hardships we face to accomplish a goal that makes the victor work winning. A guides job is to guide you in your goals, not to make them easier for you to reach. Catching a steelhead is an apex goal for most people, dont cheat yourself the experience or cheapen the sport. You want a fish then earn it

[KingofKings]

Haven't seen a 75+ thread post in awhile

[hizzy19]

I have always heard the fresh ones from the lake are GRRRRREAT!
Never tried them myself though

I've tried them multiple times... Silver fish from the lake... Maybe I've been cooking them wrong, but...:puke:

[Housatonicangler]

Scotty,
You could still catch and release and not end your trip.

[Tiderunner]

. but we could fish a few more hours if the guide could use his limit???

You don't have to keep them. I don't eat carp, but they're fun to catch.
You like eating river kings? :eek: :worthy:

did you hook the kings, or did your guide?:D :banplease:

[KingofKings]

Hey, everyone has their opinion on the subject, glad to hear yours Ditch:D

[Tiderunner]

As for taking a hand off. If you have to take a hand off from a guide you are cheating at the sport, no different then using bait in a artificals only section, or coping somebodies else's work. You didnt accomplish it yourself. It is the hardships we face to accomplish a goal that makes the victor work winning. A guides job is to guide you in your goals, not to make them easier for you to reach. Catching a steelhead is an apex goal for most people, dont cheat yourself the experience or cheapen the sport. You want a fish then earn it

THIS JUST IN: Ditch and Tide agree on something:D

[hizzy19]

A guides job is to guide you in your goals, not to make them easier for you to reach. Catching a steelhead is an apex goal for most people, dont cheat yourself the experience or cheapen the sport. You want a fish then earn it

Catching a steelhead is an apex goal for fishermen... For some people, the purpose of a guide is to let them experience something that they would never be able, or perhaps even want to do otherwise... For people who spend as much time on a fishing website as some of us do, this does not apply. "WE" are not the norm in society. A lot of people just want to do something other than sit on a beach all vacation and do not have the know-how to go out and catch a steelhead. I say let these people take hand-offs and have the time of their life for a day, take some pictures, and go home with hours and hours of stories to tell everyone they know... Why not??

[woolybugger65]

My question is, what do you do with 200 lbs of nasty mudshark?? :puke:

you freeze them, wait 6 months, and throw them in the garbage.

[Tiderunner]

I don't think you can equate someone sitting on the beach to somebody who hires a guide for steelhead in february. If you're looking to just reel in fish, the lake charters and the summer weather are there for that. Also, I should mention that pulling plugs is a different entity than handing off a float rod. I do not equate the two. If you are fishing a float/bobber, there is no reason why the client shouldn't know where to cast/etc. ESPECIALLY if you have a boat and can position your client right above a lie and set his/her float up properly and let them cast it. I've seen good guides that could take guys out that didn't know which end was up, and the client caught all the fish themselves.

I really think it boils down to being a good fisherman vs. being a good guide. To be a good guide, you have to be able to fish through your clients, but a good fisherman can pose as a guide by handing off fish... Sometimes it's just a process that a new guide will get over, since he naturally wants his client to catch fish. Certainly the best guides out there don't need to pick up a rod, they get a bigger charge out of watching thier clients hook up on their own then they do handing off -->It becomes a new phase of the sport in itself.

[toolmaker66]

Well, wasn't going to reply to this, figured it would just die out and go away. This was a loaded question from the beginning, started just to stir up trouble. If you have been on these boards for awhile you soon realize when someone puts a post up like this it is nothing more than an attempt to get the pot boiling. Looks like it is working. Someone asked if any guides are going to respond to this and the obvious answer is no, why would you? it is a question that will make you look bad no matter how you answer it. Kind of like someone asking you if you quit beating your wife? No matter your answer you look bad. In the end does it really matter? You weren't the client so how does this effect you? Long as the client had a good time and was happy with his trip and guide who are we to judge whether it was money well spent. It isn't. It wasn't our day, so arguing over it on the internet is going to solve what?? I think I remember Cray had a good one saved for instances such as this, maybe he could share it...

[Ditchrat]

I say let these people take hand-offs and have the time of their life for a day, take some pictures, and go home with hours and hours of stories to tell everyone they know... Why not??

Why not? Because they are not the die hards adding to this conversion. Why not? Because they are not fisherman, any more then me going out 1 day a year for deer makes me a deer hunter.
Why not? Because it cheapens the sport.
Why not? Because it another opinion, and maybe not a popular one but it doesnt make it any less worthy of talking about. And frankly, Im willing to call a spade a spade because I dont really care if people like me or what I have to say.
Why not? Because it a joke even entertaining the thought of taking a hand off as an adult. Because to most of us salmon are stupid crap fish because we catch to many easily and I wish that I could go back to the day when catching one fish was a big deal to me.
Why not? Because everyone here should be proud that they earned there fish, why do you think we make a big deal about it when a member reports there first steelhead.
Why not? Because fishng has tradition and a set of unspoken rules that people learn from years of fishing. And in todays PC dumbed down world it is exceptable t do things the way that makes people happy and not do things the right way.
Why not? And most importantly people like me, you, tiderunner, flyguy, cray, and dozens of other skilled fisherman here are willing to take the time to tell and sometimes show people who want to learn how to fish and how to not to violate the repect of every fish that is caught.

[hizzy19]

Why not? Because they are not the die hards adding to this conversion. Why not? Because they are not fisherman, any more then me going out 1 day a year for deer makes me a deer hunter.
Why not? Because it cheapens the sport.
Why not? Because it another opinion, and maybe not a popular one but it doesnt make it any less worthy of talking about. And frankly, Im willing to call a spade a spade because I dont really care if people like me or what I have to say.
Why not? Because it a joke even entertaining the thought of taking a hand off as an adult. Because to most of us salmon are stupid crap fish because we catch to many easily and I wish that I could go back to the day when catching one fish was a big deal to me.
Why not? Because everyone here should be proud that they earned there fish, why do you think we make a big deal about it when a member reports there first steelhead.
Why not? Because fishng has tradition and a set of unspoken rules that people learn from years of fishing. And in todays PC dumbed down world it is exceptable t do things the way that makes people happy and not do things the right way.
Why not? And most importantly people like me, you, tiderunner, flyguy, cray, and dozens of other skilled fisherman here are willing to take the time to tell and sometimes show people who want to learn how to fish and how to not to violate the repect of every fish that is caught.

Just one question ditch: Say I'm out fishing with a guide with my 10 yr old daughter... I say yeah go ahead Mr. Guide, cast a line... He hooks up and hands the rod to my 10 yr old daughter... Do I tell him not to do that? Is that "cheapening the sport"?

[KingofKings]

Someone is getting EXCIIIIIIITED!:bigeek:

[Ditchrat]

opps

[speytard]

Just one question ditch: Say I'm out fishing with a guide with my 10 yr old daughter... I say yeah go ahead Mr. Guide, cast a line... He hooks up and hands the rod to my 10 yr old daughter... Do I tell him not to do that? Is that "cheapening the sport"?

Yes it is, I have taken my 8 year old nephew out many times and teached him how to cast, where to cast and why to cast there and in an hour he had 2 Salmon to the bank all by himself.. The reward of teaching that to him was PRICELESS..

[hizzy19]

oops... sorry ditch... I retract that one... Didn't see the adult part... I just don't like the "holier than thou" stuff that gets tossed around on here. Everybody fishes for different reasons. Some people who don't know how to fish still want to catch a fish. I agree, the fish do deserve our respect, but is it really that disrespectful for someone to carry a memory of reeling in a fish for the rest of their life?

[KingofKings]

What you need to understand Ditch is that I have been going up 2-3 times a month this winter...learning..learning...learning. I am a fisherman, whether Ol' wise one Ditch says so or not, it really isn't important. I know you know you stuff, everyone does, and you get respect from putting in your time. But alot of that respect goes away when you talk down to people. I am not saying sugar-coat everything, but try to be respectful.
But the point is I left an honest report, and someone picked it apart. The point of the report was to inform of my day on the river. I could have lied, I could have left stuff out, but I didn't. I had a good time, and learned alot and wanted to share that experience with others on the site. Read my post, read my threads, I am not that experienced, but I give what I can. The best part is the one that got this pot boiling has a total of 6 posts and no profile. I agree with Toolie, they knew what they were doing, and it worked.
Gotta love SalmonCrazy.com, I know I do:woohoo:

[speytard]

This thread wasn't started to pick your report apart, it was more of an ethic's thing.. So keep posting report's..

[KingofKings]

I think its' your turn now Speytard:D

[Ditchrat]

But alot of that respect goes away when you talk down to people. I am not saying sugar-coat everything, but try to be respectful.
But the point is I left an honest report, and someone picked it apart.

First of all I dont need or want peoples repect. I go out and catch fish and thats all I need or want. Its all about just being out there, and how you do it not how many you catch. How can people not get that? Why do you think erie steelhead are call practice dumbies, or kings mudsharks.

I call it as I see it. If you dont like it dont read it. I didnt pick apart your report nor would I. In fact I am one of the first people to stick there neck out for someone asking an unpopular question. And my post wasnt directed toward you, or I just would have said it was. You do want you want to do, and I will never call you on it. Your life doesnt effect mine, so I have no problems with letting you live it undistrubed by me.
You dont want my opinions that fine by me. You wont get them any more:wave:

[hizzy19]

I can't wait for the weekend to come... I need to go fishing!!!:D

[KingofKings]

Read my post again, I think you misread it, cause you didn't get anything from it....:bolt:

[scottyfishon/offcreature]

You don't have to keep them. I don't eat carp, but they're fun to catch.
You like eating river kings? :eek: :worthy:

did you hook the kings, or did your guide?:D :banplease:
:jawdrop: Yeah we caught them on rapalas in the estuary. Casting What a blast they hit them not like in the river and they are very fresh not beatin up in the river salmon. I give 300 lbs. away and people (friends ) LOVE it always asking for more!!!!

Butter lemon salt pepper, blackening seasoning, allseason salt,: secret ingredients and grill on grill until done love it!!!:jawdrop: :humble:

Sorry dritch(sp) but you are on mars dude!!!

[Tiderunner]

Your life doesnt effect mine, so I have no problems with letting you live it undistrubed by me.
You dont want my opinions that fine by me. You wont get them any more:wave:

Ditch, you bailing because you share a point of view with me? Come on man!
how come your post drew all the fire anyway? There's a lot of guys that agree with you, they just don't want to say anything on this board. Have a gander: http://www.fishusa.com/Discussion2/viewthread.asp?forum=AMB_AP329826884&id=21401

[Tiderunner]

Butter lemon salt pepper, blackening seasoning, allseason salt,: secret ingredients and grill on grill until done love it!!!


Ya put enough barbeque sauce on it, you can eat anything:D
Seriously though, I'm glad you like eating that stuff. To me salmon is worse than the stuff they make people eat on Fear Factor

[bigbear]

MYBE this horse is DEAD!!:D

could we stop beating it?:rolleyes:

[KingofKings]

(HORSE):whip:

[Ditchrat]

Ditch, you bailing because you share a point of view with me? Come on man!
how come your post drew all the fire anyway? There's a lot of guys that agree with you, they just don't want to say anything on this board. Have a gander: http://www.fishusa.com/Discussion2/viewthread.asp?forum=AMB_AP329826884&id=21401

Im bailing on the thread, becuase people like you understand, and nothing I say to those that dont will make them.

[hizzy19]

Let's leave the dead horse out in the sun for a few weeks, then we can eat it and be reminded of the lovely palatte pleasing taste of the mighty mud shark...

[scottyfishon/offcreature]

way to eat sr salmon!!!:banplease: for eating salmon but it is a good source omega 3 fatty acids good for your brain...;)

[KingofKings]

This is true, good brain food!

[bigbear]

Yep all of that mercury makes them GREAT brain food!!!:eek:
Hey hizzy great idea, leave the dead hourse in the sun for a couple weeks, collect the magots and take our sorry a-ses fishing so we don't just sit here doing mental masturbation:worthy: :rolleyes: :sorry: :D

[hizzy19]

Yep all of that mercury makes them GREAT brain food!!!:eek:
Hey hizzy great idea, leave the dead hourse in the sun for a couple weeks, collect the magots and take our sorry a-ses fishing so we don't just sit here doing mental masturbation:worthy: :rolleyes: :sorry: :D

If I learned anything in chemistry and biology class, it is the benefits of mercury... And masturbation...:p :banplease:

[bigbear]

lol:woohoo:

[ecsteelheader]

Smoke um if ya got um:worthy: ..... puff puff pass and go fishing...lol:whip: :D

[psac]

AAAAARRRRGGGGHHH!!!! I"M A PIRATE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Ditchrat]

.

[Baldie]

mysteriously enough none of the guides have actually chimed in on their opinion on all of this. come on boys, gottum, get the net, stonefly, steelie11, and others not mentioned, let's hear it.
aaaaah shoot, their prolly out on the river anyway while we are all working like dogs.
YOU ASKED FOR SO HERE IT IS(GUIDES OPPION)

This has to be one of the best threads I have ever followed. lets talk about the client hand off. There is a time and a place for it and that is that. Never do I pick up a rod unless my clients expect me 2 and weather some of you believe it or not some client are offended when I tell them that I am here to teach and to put you on fish. But the very first thing out of my mouth if asked by a client if I am going to fish is no I'm going to be to busy ,ROWING,RIGGING,NETTING , need I keep going on, especially if these are first timers on the river or in my drift boat, But as a guide we develope friendships with many clients and some of them want the comradery and that is what they get. Now topic 2 , cost of a guide . Now this is one I know WILL PULL A FEW NOSTRIL HAIRS. If all guides stopped undercutting each other it would be easier to charge the going rate for a drift boat trip down the salmon river unfortunately there are some guides that think 100 bucks is the going rate. I know some people have to eat but this does effect all guides and clients .I for one am lucky enough to have clients that pay for there services and understand that yes this is a business . Now this is not intended to offend anyone, just to tell the truth. Now for the fact that some folks seem to think guides keep there lion share of the salmon and steelhead . This is simply untrue as a guide I may keep my limit of salmon once a season for smoking and 1 steelhead or 2 never do I or any guide I know keep steelhead for clients . Only what there allowed IF THAT....Wow im a wind bag . ok guys have at it(LOL)

[hizzy19]

OH NO!!! Here we go again!!!:bigeek: :scared: :faint:

"lets talk about the client hand off. There is a time and a place for it and that is that."

It's about time...:humble:

[woolybugger65]

YOU ASKED FOR SO HERE IT IS(GUIDES OPPION)

thanks jim, i was starting to feel like i over stepped my boundaries with my post.

[KingofKings]

Very well put Baldie, thanks for the insight, you are brave, and it's appreciated!:D

[Browntrout5]

Sort of like being a yankee fan in boston...


Its actually kinda fun ;) :woohoo:
http://mlb.imageg.net/graphics/product_images/pMLB2-1669676reg.jpg

[hizzy19]

Try being a Boston Bruins fan in Montreal... :fear: :faint:

[stackmend]

No offense to you but again I say sit at the Pineville ramp for an afternoon in Oct or Nov and count the fish coming out of the boats. I don't believe for a second that the guides are keeping thier limit every day to eat so they must either be giving them to greedy clients or have HUGE gardens to fertilize. Maybe it is just the 100 dollar guides but with all of them out there it is still a lot of extra dead fish.

[KingofKings]

The clients must be taking them. But I think if the guide is fishing, and it is ok for him to be doing so by the client, and the guide want to take a fish home...let him! AS LONG AS HE IS THE ONE TAKING IT HOME.

[moetown]

I must be missing something here - maybe I'm all wet.

I wouldn't be paying a guide to fish.. I would expect him to be teaching me and showing me what to do, where and why. I definetly wouldn't want him to hook and hand off (which seems to be the practice of some guides you see on the SR). What do you get out of that? Paying a guide fish all day? Does that help you fish on you own when they are not around? I don't think so..

Not trying to blast anyone just a general thing you see alot of on the river and some guy's are happy with that..
lets go fishing an ill charge u half the price of the guide ill hook and give u the rod your paying him to put u on to fish not hook them learning to drift an hook up is the most imp part of fishing the salmon

[moetown]

most guides on the sr with the exception of the honorable mr ********* are like adult dancers they are all your friends as long as you have cabbage to give them until that point most are mutes with info for free

[psac]

WOW! This thread went from ethics of passing off fish to ethics of catch and release and finally to people actually pimpin' their favorite guide! I can't wait to see what happens next! Actually, I take that back.....I'm Done!!!!!!
Everyone has had their chance to speak on the subject and now its starting to take that fateful turn into a bunch of crap falling out of people's mouths.. MY GUIDE IS BETTER THAN YOUR GUIDE! That's just stupid!

[Browntrout5]

with the exception of the honorable mr randy jones


:puke: :crazy:

[bigbear]

Good point psac
its dead lets let it RIP:focus:

[moetown]

just who is your fav guide

[Ditchrat]

most guides on the sr with the exception of the honorable mr ********** are like adult dancers they are all your friends as long as you have cabbage to give them until that point most are mutes with info for free

You know its one thing adding your opinion to this, but that was just Fing wrong. ********* is a ***** that pimps himself out for money. Many many guides on this river are hard working honest men. There job, and there product is information. And you expect them to give that up for free. But I would expect that kind of blanket comment from an ORVIS *****, its all about the name and show not the skill right.

How can you expect something for nothing. You that same type of garbage that used to follow me and my clients to my spots in the morning because you where to cheap, lazy, or stupid to find your on waters.

[Fish-N-Chip]

gottum

[bigbear]

yea it seems to me that "pimping" one guide over another should go on some other site:eek:
:humble: lmfao

[cuz]

So.....how about this weather we've been having!

[Fish-N-Chip]

Quite balmy:crazy:

[fishon1954]

It seems to me that OTHER people on this site are promoting "their" favorite guide(s) too.ONE MORE TIME.
I fished with Randy Jones. He was a true professional when I was in his boat.
The fish we caught hit our flies.There was no lifting or snagging involved.
We were in the boat before sunrise.we didn't follow anyone to their favorite holes.They caught up with us.
Would I recommend him to someone else ? YES!!!
Am i knocking other guides ? NO!!!
I can't.I've never fished with them.

[Craydaddy]

Quite balmy:crazy:

Yep along with the tone of this thread. Before it gets to hot to handle in here and everyone wants to throw down the Mod team has decided to close the thread. It was a great disscussion and a great read.

Thanks

Craydaddy and the Mod Staff