Posted Below Town Pool

[TOPGUN]

I read a thread a couple of weeks back about posted signs and a guy charging for parking and access. I've never fished that area but found this on another site...FYI for those who fish that area:

Also, this next part is important! I've read a few reports about some crazy guy charging $10 to fish on his property (approx. 200 yds. below the town pool). Turns out he's not so crazy. He does indeed own the property and I had a 'nice' conversation with the DEC one day when I was fishing there. This guy owns the area which is now heavily posted with NO TRESPASSING SIGNS, including all the way out to halfway in the river. He actually owns the dirt under the river!, but not the water itself. So, you can't fish there unless you have his permission or you pay him his $10 (no I didn't pay the greedy SOB, I just left). I think he still needs to get his permits so he can charge you and be legal for the IRS, but that's a different story. For us fisherman, it means you can't fish there unless you want to get arrested by the DEC - yep, arrested, not just ticketed. The DEC (2 big heavily armed dudes) said to me, "if you don't leave, we can arrest you". That sobered me up pretty quickly.

[Linescreamer]

Can you clarify this location? I haven't seen the signs. Which property are you talking about? Where is the parking lot? Is it next to the long bridge? or upstream? It is on the north or south side? Is it the fast water below the town pool or actually in the pool (long bridge or short bridge pool)? Thanks TG

[mikefishon]

well their is still plenty of river left, let the greedy basta*ds have it. just mt 2 cents

[gman2153]

Pimp

[Tiderunner]

isn't restricting easments in NY only a grandfathered law? That sounds sketchy. I like that water too. I know in ohio and Pa they can own the riverbank, but I thought the only way that titles could be drawn in such a manner were if the orignal survey of the land actually emcompasses the river? I'm gonna look into that. all these moron's trying to profit. What is this ENGLAND??!!!

[Finman]

Can you clarify this location? I haven't seen the signs. Which property are you talking about? Where is the parking lot? Is it next to the long bridge? or upstream? It is on the north or south side? Is it the fast water below the town pool or actually in the pool (long bridge or short bridge pool)? Thanks TG


Got ya really thinkin now huh LS?? $$$ I smell a neighborly partnership in the works!!! LMAO!!! Just bustin man!!!



Fin

[gman2153]

If the landowner has posted his land because folks were abusing it by leaving trash or destroying anything on it, then I don't blame him one bit. If he's out to make a quick buck, then perhaps he is a pimp.

The earlier comment about the DEC telling the guy to leave or he would be arrested makes me ponder this question.

To me it is strange to see personnel of a state agency performing the task of security guard for a private property owner. Is this unique to the State of NY? I can understand the DEC being present there to enforce fishing regulations, but not to enforce trespassing rules by a private landowner.

Wassup with this?

[AV8TER]

Same thing happened to me on a small trib outside of dunkirk,*****(oops I mean lady)was out patrolling a small section of water with posted signs everywhere.DEC & a Nys Trooper were driving by so I stopped them both to ask. I thought if you were in the water you were ok,Turns out you can float down but not touch bottom or you were trespassing.sucks whats gonna happen when all landowners act this way. gettin harder & harder to find nice stretches of water that aren't hammered all day long,G -man,I agree w/ya that some inconsiderate butt monkeys make it difficult for the guy's that really care,if I owned land along a creek/river & it was gettin trashed I'd post the poop out of it also.But pimpin it out just ain't right.

[thalweg]

gman...

the dec has as much, if not more, authority that a state trooper. you betcha they have a say when it comes to trespassing.

[gman2153]

Thanks Gordo:

I was not aware of that. I don't even know if it works that way in Pa.

p.s. - I was asking about you yesterday in the Shoutbox - and lo & behold here you are. Welcome back, been awhile since you posted.

Now we are back to 2 visor-wearing guys on Salmon Crazy:D

[Ditchrat]

isn't restricting easments in NY only a grandfathered law? That sounds sketchy. I like that water too. I know in ohio and Pa they can own the riverbank, but I thought the only way that titles could be drawn in such a manner were if the orignal survey of the land actually emcompasses the river? I'm gonna look into that. all these moron's trying to profit. What is this ENGLAND??!!!

I PA you own everything but navicable water ways, they are public highways.

[Mad Dog]

Ditch-
The problem with "Navigable" waterways is this... The PA Fish & Boast Commission has not made an actual list of waterways that fall under this classification for many areas- including my home waters of the Yellow Breeches Creek in Central PA. There is a stretch of stream that a property owner claims you cannot anchor your canoe on, or even wade into from downstream at the public access.

Either way, it's a mess to see happening on the SR.

[JStreamside]

Somebody obviously put the guy's "undies in a bunch" to have him post it like that and enforce it to the hilt. I know you can't just wade in from public water either. If he hasn't given (or updated) public access or fishing rights with the DEC, then he in fact can do as he's done. Not sure on the "pay to play" issue, but I think you need some type of business license etc to cover liability of those while on your property if you charge access fee's etc.

IMHO...I'll just pay the extra $15 over what he wants and go to the DSR...and let's not get into a DSR debate...I've only been there once and (overall) had a great time.

[Spade]

If this is true, I don't blame him. Ask him how much he pays in property tax for the "privilege" of owning waterfront property in NYS and you might understand why. He can't enjoy the property (for obvious reasons) but he has to pay for it, while those who do enjoy it get a free ride.

[thalweg]

g,

hehehehe...you remember the visors. i've been kinda in and out of the site, here and there sorta thing. haven't been able to fish much this fall. duck season is now in full swing...been doin' a lot of that lately and have been pretty lucky. it was snowin' at my house this a.m (above 1500 feet el.). if it stays that way, gonna see if i can't get away from work for a day...

tight lines to ya...

-t

[champlain fisher]

If the landowner has posted his land because folks were abusing it by leaving trash or destroying anything on it, then I don't blame him one bit. If he's out to make a quick buck, then perhaps he is a pimp.

The earlier comment about the DEC telling the guy to leave or he would be arrested makes me ponder this question.

To me it is strange to see personnel of a state agency performing the task of security guard for a private property owner. Is this unique to the State of NY? I can understand the DEC being present there to enforce fishing regulations, but not to enforce trespassing rules by a private landowner.

Wassup with this?

Happened to me on a trib to Champlain a few years ago. the DEC officer was friends with the property owner and said he checks the area from time to time for him. I got a ticket for tresspassing but was more pissed that AN EMPLOYEE OF THE STATE WAS BEING THIS GUYS PERSONAL SECURITY GAURD. The reason I know this is true about the DEC officer and the owner was because the officer told me so. The real kicker was that I had 3 salmon and the limit is 2, the DEC officer told me he did not care about the fish. You think as a DEC officer he would have been more PO'D ABOUT ME HAVING AN ILLEGAL FISH then tresspassing. So since then I really don't have any respect for the officer that I dealt with, he don't care about what people do with the fish as long as they are not tresspassing on his buddies property. Seems to have a screwed up view of what his job really is.

Got a 25 dollar fine with a well written letter to the judge, COST THEM MORE IN WAGES FOR THE TICKET THAN WHAT WAS COLLECTED FOR A FINE. gotta love the system.

[JStreamside]

For the most part, things are pretty quiet around here where the ECO's are concerned and they'd just as soon not "upset the apple cart" than do something unless they actually see the "crime" being commited. The common feeling being they just sit back and keep things low key while they wait to retire or move to another area.

Guys will "argue" they had permission to hunt a piece of property when it was owned by so-and-so. Thing is...a number used to feel that even when ownership changes hands, they should still be able to do just as they used to because "...that's the way it's always been". We had to post our land up tighter than...well you get the idea...and to completely stop trespassing we now give permission to hunt only in writing and it must be carried by that person while on our property. At least now we've got some solid ground to stand on when we catch trespassers...and we're the only parcel in our entire tax grid to have a survey filed at the county building. But it still stinks how some of these ECO's make things "cozy" for themselves and their friends.

[Junkyard Gypsy]

not to stray from the original topic, but remember the Hmong guy in Mn that, for whatever reason, was trespassing. When he was approached, he unloaded the magazine. :eek: . that would stick in my mind approaching anyone in the bush with a weapon. Especially those who know how to use it.

I believe in owners rights, but damn its the SR. either way it sucks. you own waterfront and don't fish, but get taxed for it. I would put a concrete patio out there and let the kids and handicap people fish it only, 2 birds one stone.

[the happy salmon]

i used to hit that area once in a while but i guess thats it for me. i am not paying to fish when there are so many other places to go.

[Spade]

Happened to me on a trib to Champlain a few years ago. the DEC officer was friends with the property owner and said he checks the area from time to time for him. I got a ticket for tresspassing but was more pissed that AN EMPLOYEE OF THE STATE WAS BEING THIS GUYS PERSONAL SECURITY GAURD. The reason I know this is true about the DEC officer and the owner was because the officer told me so. The real kicker was that I had 3 salmon and the limit is 2, the DEC officer told me he did not care about the fish. You think as a DEC officer he would have been more PO'D ABOUT ME HAVING AN ILLEGAL FISH then tresspassing. So since then I really don't have any respect for the officer that I dealt with, he don't care about what people do with the fish as long as they are not tresspassing on his buddies property. Seems to have a screwed up view of what his job really is.

Got a 25 dollar fine with a well written letter to the judge, COST THEM MORE IN WAGES FOR THE TICKET THAN WHAT WAS COLLECTED FOR A FINE. gotta love the system.


The real question (or concern) here is; why were you trespassing and why were you over your limit with salmon?

[goat ball]

That is one of my favorite mid winter thaw spots to fish. Oh well. Just need to find somebody who owns a driftboat:D

[champlain fisher]

The real question (or concern) here is; why were you trespassing and why were you over your limit with salmon?

young and dumb, have changed my way alot since then, now I don't keep but maybe one or 2 salmon a year.

[gman2153]

That makes us all proud at Salmon Crazy CF.

You are living proof that the 12-Step Snaggerolics Program really works...:D

[Ditchrat]

Ditch-
The problem with "Navigable" waterways is this... The PA Fish & Boast Commission has not made an actual list of waterways that fall under this classification for many areas- including my home waters of the Yellow Breeches Creek in Central PA. There is a stretch of stream that a property owner claims you cannot anchor your canoe on, or even wade into from downstream at the public access.

Either way, it's a mess to see happening on the SR.


Navigable waterways are defind as any water was in which comerce is conducted. Guided Kayaking was legally ruled as comerce, so if a kayak can go down its public. However what you said is 100% correct and you must sue the land owner to get it recognized or get fined and fight it with a suit. To much work for most people

[Ditchrat]

he unloaded the magazine. :eek: ..

He unloaded his magazine because they started shooting at him, you know its bad when someone kills most of you hunting party then you tell the police that the dead guys shot first:(

[gman2153]

Ditch - there are various accounts of that story. I read some chit about it, not sure what to believe.

In Pa, the navigable water laws go back to turn of the century law. For example, the Lehigh River is classified as navigable because many years ago it was used to transport coal and lumber downstream... The rafting companies today have nothing to do with it...

Not sure how NY works with that law. Regardless, if you wanted to change the river's classification you better have mucho $$ for lawyers & lobbying efforts.