GUILTY vs. NOT GUILTY ???

[rusty]

been reading the posts for the last week or so regarding the dec giving out tickets on b/s violations on the s/r......some of the examples were foulhooked fish, hooks still in them at the cleaning station, etc.....my question is, what is the district judge's outlook on these.....i;m sure he gets more than enough "he said/she said's" or "it happened this way, not that way"...when people request hearings on these tickets......does anyone how many of these b/s pinches actually hold up.....not only this year, but years past....or seeing that alot of people are from out of the area, do they just pay off the fine......

[rusty]

been reading the posts for the last week or so regarding the dec giving out tickets on b/s violations on the s/r......some of the examples were foulhooked fish, hooks still in them at the cleaning station, etc.....my question is, what is the district judge's outlook on these.....i;m sure he gets more than enough "he said/she said's" or "it happened this way, not that way"...when people request hearings on these tickets......does anyone how many of these b/s pinches actually hold up.....not only this year, but years past....or seeing that alot of people are from out of the area, do they just pay off the fine......


just realized how i worded that.......the b/s pinch i was referring to for the foulhooked fish was regarding a post last week when the guy landed a fish and realized it was hooked under, not in, the mouth and was issued a ticket.....sorry about the wording.......

[Tiogafishaddict]

just realized how i worded that.......the b/s pinch i was referring to for the foulhooked fish was regarding a post last week when the guy landed a fish and realized it was hooked under, not in, the mouth and was issued a ticket.....sorry about the wording.......
well i would think the fines are not stiff enough to really make me want to take the trip back up to fight it,, so its the game they play,

[JStreamside]

This is direct from the DEC Officers working across the complex I was at during our county fair this past summer...(I was working for TU at their building). They all have to "do time" as they call it along the Lake O tribs during the season...especially salmon season...and most detest it. But the most common "theme" between all is exactly what they call it..."Dollars for Collars" and the way things are done, they really don't want to have to come back for court...that costs the state money to have them back.

The courts can be so overwhelmed with violations, that it can (and does) become "academic" and you are "guilty" regardless of what you say or do...$$$ is the over-riding factor. Most don't return to fight the fines because they know they don't stand much of a chance if they do. What guys that are hauled off, atleast in the past, have not only paid hefty fines, but have also had fishing gear confiscated in some cases.

In short, nearly all just pay the fine in light of having to go before the judge and enduring a lengthy trip back to the area. As for "fighting the fine"...it's a losing battle regardless...the burden of proof lies with the "angler" which (unfortunately) is an uphill battle.

[champlain fisher]

I thought that the accusser had to be the one to prove guilt, not the accussed to to disprove guilt. They will give the wrong person a BS ticket someday, the kind that has money to burn and will fight and expose how laws are being stretched and public elected officials are abusing the system. Like all good things it will come to an end. I would think that taking someones fishing gear for a simple violation is an illegal siezure or an excessive punishment seeing as there was a fine payed to boot. Maybe it is time to start letting the people that monitior these township wanna be judges know what kind of shaninigans are going on there.

I have had guys tell me that when they were brought to the judge, the judge said if they did not pay the ticket then and there he was going to put them in jail. I would have said go ahead, can you say wrongful imprisonment law suit. I will pay the ticket out of the settlement money I get from suing your a$$ off. Since when can you put someone in jail for using a leader to long or for a hook gap that was to big or whatever. These are simple violations, not a felony.

[ounder44]

I thought were all innocent until proven guilty!

[bigbear]

not where it comes to game laws.......it is guilty because the officer says so, unless you can prove your innocence
sue the b%@^@$s!!:mad:

[fish-off]

I thought were all innocent until proven guilty!

Exactly my thought as well.

Bonus point: After i'm done in court, I'll have to get a grip and spend the rest of the day on the river, and there isnt too much my wife can say about it! Sometimes you just have to make the best out of a bad situation...

[Tiderunner]

not where it comes to game laws.......it is guilty because the officer says so, unless you can prove your innocence
sue the b%@^@$s!!:mad:


No, burden of proof still falls on the plaintiff, but the officer is both the plaintiff AND and the witness....

[champlain fisher]

No, burden of proof still falls on the plaintiff, but the officer is both the plaintiff AND and the witness....

And judges that are just going to say yeah so what off it to the rspondent, that will be 100 dollars.

[Tiderunner]

And judges that are just going to say yeah so what off it to the rspondent, that will be 100 dollars.

plus court costs:(
but that still doesn't mean it's worth bending over and taking it. especially if you have a case pursuant to grey areas in the statute that must be left with a trier of fact. Judges have to take into account the pleading of the defendant in a case where "reasonable time" is involved (as in keeping a fish out of water). Judges in f&g and in traffic court sit as a trier of fact, and determine matters of law.

... In other words, if you get a ticket for immediately releasing a foul hooked fish, the fact of the case would demonstrate your adherance to the law. Yes, the judge may be jaded and stick it to you. but that shouldn't dissuade someone from at least making a reasonable attempt at litigating the case (especailly if you have a friend who was witness to the event). I would plea not guilty and fight my *** off. but, hey, these kinds of vaguenesses in fish and game statutes are what got me into law to begin with.

Sorry for the diatribe man, I just can't stand to see this kind of crap when the real animals are out in force.

[gman2153]

I agree in principal Tide..

However, if I was faced with my 3.5 drive one-way and will have to miss a day of work to fight a $100-200 fine, I think the checks in the mail.
Alot of guys face a much longer drive than I do.

If I was a local - or the fine was big bucks, I would fight it if I thought I was wrongly accused.

[Tiderunner]

certainly. I'm only speaking "in princple" anyway. If you could defend it than do it, but most people can't. sucks.

also, a lot of these judges get elected and hold office based on their bringing in revenue... better to hit up the out of towners than the locals. Oh well.

[AV8TER]

Come on,we are talking about locals in that area,most dont have two nickels to rub together,Those judges know that only visitors to the poolaski/altmar area have any $$$$$$.Yes sir,no sir please dont give me a ticket sir,I think I'll go up next time & fish w/out a leader & w/out a hook.better yet no reel/no line/no weight.Just stand there & simulate some serious lifting technique.can you get a ticket for being a smarta$$.& do you even need a license for simulated liftin.There are idiots who deserve a coupon for court & there are guys who dont I think it's bs that some guys get boned for something so small

[9 wt]

This past Sunday I landed a really nice brown in the LFZ. I felt the hit and set the hook. When I got it in I saw that it was hooked outside of the lower jaw. A few guys came over to see the fish and offered to take a picture. I was pretty nervous about playing and landing a "fouled" hooked fish that I just wanted to get it back in the water. I wish now that I had a picture of that fish as it was the biggest brown I ever caught.

Question is that if DEC was there, and you never know, saw the hook outside the mouth and I took the time to get a picture would I have gotten a ticket?While playing the fish I could feel the head shake and as I got closer to landing the fish it certainly appeared to have been a legal hook.