Fly fishing setup?

[Checkurfly]

for the past two years ive been using my 8 wt setup....with just a weight foward line...and a leader. its done me well...so far. but i see everyone talking about running lines and this and that. and now im rather confused. can someone explain this to me? :confused: :D

[Flyfishr]

Line choice depends alot on what type of water you prefer to fish. Guys fishing the really deep stuff need to get down deep and fast so thin diameter running allows them to do that. My set up is a 10' 8 weight with a WF line, I like to fish shallower water and alot less weight with BIG flies, so this works for me, just need to mend and be able to use a flyrod to its full potential...

I know the OFFICIAL line of SC is CAJUN line. :D

[Checkurfly]

can someone explain the definition of a "running" line. i dont get it. im in the same boat as you i like to fish the shallow waters more so.....ive found my 8 wt setup works well. i dont like to chuck a handful of lead. i like to hook my fish not knock them out :)

[gman2153]

Different lines have different purposes and different guys employ different techniques.

I use straight running fly line for mudharks is because it is cheap... and my technique is mostly Chuck & Duck so I really don't think the line makes a big difference when C&Dng.

Chances are high that when you hook up with one of them brutes your line will get drug across/under rocks and other debris as you try to chase after them as they head back towrd the lake. $20 is alot less painful that then the price of some of them lines on the market.

[Checkurfly]

Different lines have different purposes and different guys employ different techniques.

I use straight running fly line for mudharks is because it is cheap... and my technique is mostly Chuck & Duck so I really don't think the line makes a big difference when C&Dng.

Chances are high that when you hook up with one of them brutes your line will get drug across/under rocks and other debris as you try to chase after them as they head back towrd the lake. $20 is alot less painful that then the price of some of them lines on the market.


exactly why....all my salmon line....is purchased either at the cortland store on the way up...or on sale. a few trips last season and my line is already chewed up.

[gman2153]

can someone explain the definition of a "running" line.

A non-technical answer for you:
Some flylines are labeled as DT (double taper) and some WF Weight Forward...
Running Line is simply fly line without any taper or weight added - guess that's why it is so cheap...

No magic necessary to hook a mudskark - HookEM and HANGON!!!:D

[Fish-N-Chip]

Running line is also called level line for obvious reasons since it doesn't have a taper as G-man stated. It is very thin when compared to weight forward or double taper fly line.

I don't know exact diameters, and the diameter is slightly different from manufacturer to manufacturer, but it's in the range of .20 to .30

It's the same type of line that's used with shooting heads. The weight of the shooting line carries the running line or level line out through the guides. It shoots very easy since it has a small diameter and cuts through the water better than a WF or DT.

Since it is level:
-traditonal fly casting is very tough
-mending blows
-don't even think about roll casting or spey casting
-some sort of weight (shooting head, shot,etc..) is almost a necessary item. How much weight is up to you.

~Chip

[Checkurfly]

oh ok...i thought it was in addition to fly line....as in between that and your tippet.


also is it a must to taper down your leaders or can i throw on a 9 ft pc of 8 lb mono and go at it.

[Lil Salmon]

I know the OFFICIAL line of SC is CAJUN line. :D

I swear you guys do this just to bust my balls :) :D

-Lil'

[Craydaddy]

This is striaght form Cortland's site. I hope this helps.



FLY LINE CODES
<TABLE width="64%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD width="14%">DT</TD><TD width="43%">Double Taper</TD><TD width="10%">ST</TD><TD width="33%">Shooting Taper</TD></TR><TR><TD width="14%">WF</TD><TD width="43%">Weight Forward</TD><TD width="10%">S</TD><TD width="33%">Sinking</TD></TR><TR><TD width="14%">F/S</TD><TD width="43%">Sinking Tip</TD><TD width="10%">L</TD><TD width="33%">Level</TD></TR><TR><TD width="14%">I</TD><TD width="43%">Intermediate</TD><TD width="10%"></TD><TD width="33%"></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>FLY LINE PROFILES
<TABLE width="100%" border=1><TBODY><TR><TD width="100%">ROCKET TAPER
http://www.cortlandline.com/technical/art/444_img.jpg
TIP FRONT TAPER BODY BACK TAPER RUNNING LINE Specially designed weight forward line with long front taper for delicate presentation. Weight distribution of body section allows extra distance.
</TD></TR><TR><TD width="100%">DOUBLE TAPER
http://www.cortlandline.com/technical/art/444dtimg.jpg
TIP FRONT TAPER BODY BACK TAPER The double taper is a reversible fly line with an identical taper at both ends. A double taper line is easy to mend.
</TD></TR><TR><TD width="100%">BASS TAPER
http://www.cortlandline.com/technical/art/444slbas.jpg
TIP FRONT TAPER BODY BACK TAPER RUNNING LINE Weight forward line with short front taper to "turn over" heavier, wind resistant cork and hair body bugs. The most practical choice for bass bugs.
</TD></TR><TR><TD width="100%">SALT WATER TAPER
http://www.cortlandline.com/technical/art/333saltw-blue.jpg
TIP FRONT TAPER BODY BACK TAPER RUNNING LINE Weight forward line for casting larger flies during windy condition. Small diameter running line feeds through rod guides with less frictional resistance.
</TD></TR><TR><TD width="100%">WIND TAPER
http://www.cortlandline.com/technical/art/Windimg.jpg
TIP FRONT TAPERS BODY BACK TAPER RUNNING LINE Weight forward design that has a compound taper allows easier casts into the wind.
</TD></TR><TR><TD width="100%">QUICK DESCENT TAPER
http://www.cortlandline.com/technical/art/Qdimg.jpg
BODY BACK TAPER RUNNING LINE Weight forward design that combines a 24 foot sinking head with a six fee rear floating section. Allows mending of line
</TD></TR><TR><TD width="100%">SHOOTING TAPER
http://www.cortlandline.com/technical/art/333shimg.jpg
TIP FRONT TAPER BODY LOOP Specialized for long distance casting. It is a 30' or 40' head with a factory spliced loop for attaching monofilament or running line.
</TD></TR><TR><TD width="100%">LEVEL
http://www.cortlandline.com/technical/art/LEVEL.jpg
No tapers or belly. Used for delicate fly presentation or when long casts are not essential.</TD></TR><TR><TD width="100%">CLEAR CREEK TAPER
http://www.cortlandline.com/technical/art/444clearcreek.jpg
TIP FRONT TAPER BODY BACK TAPER RUNNING LINE Extended tips for pinpoint accuracy and most delicate presentation.
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

[Fish-N-Chip]

Typical Salmon River Set up:

Mainline or leader butt: Length = 8-10 ft or length of rod. Usually it is dictated by the type/depth of water you are fishing and consists of one straight piece of 20lb - 12lb connected to a small swivel.

Attach tippet to other end of swivel. 4ft maximum distance between weight and fly.

Attach a short 4"-6" tag of mainline to swivel to attch split shot if that is your choice of weight.

It's not a must to taper your leader, but you'll lose a lot of tippet by going with a straight piece of 8lb.

Also, if you are using weight there is no way to stop it from sliding/moving past the 4ft. max distance between weight and fly.

~Chip

[Craydaddy]

Look what I found in Lil's favorites!! LMFAO!!

http://www.cajunline.com/images/products/red-cast.jpg

[gman2153]

Typical Salmon River Set up:

Attach a short 4"-6" tag of mainline to swivel to attch split shot if that is your choice of weight.

Also, if you are using weight there is no way to stop it from sliding/moving past the 4ft. max distance between weight and fly.

~Chip

Chip - if I may add a couple comments:

When you said attach a tag of mainline - it sounds like you are actually adding another piece of line....

When I tie my tippet onto the barrel swivel, I simply let a few extra inches of that line hanging from the swivel after I tie my knot. Then I tie one overhand knot in the end of the that line (i.e. - tag end). I attach my weight to that tag end, the overhand knot keeps the weight on the line, but will allow it to get pulled off if you get snagged... If you get snagged really good chances are you will just loose your tippet and weight and your main line will be left intact.

If you attach your weight this way you will stay legal - assuming your tippet to hook is no longer than 4 feet.

There really is no right or wrong way i guess, but that is the setup I use for Chuckin & Duckin...

[Checkurfly]

I understand the difference between lines, just didnt understand fully the entire "running" line verbiage. ive personally always used a rocket taper floating.


what about the leaders? a length of maxima is ok? thats what i did last season. only fished hard one day last season and hooked into 5 landing 2.

EDIT....swivels? flyfishing? im confused. lol

[gman2153]

Hey Cray - is that the line that glows in the sunlight??

From upstream It looks like one of the sabors they fight with in Star Wars!!! LMAO

[Craydaddy]

Hey Cray - is that the line that glows in the sunlight??

From upstream It looks like one of the sabors they fight with in Star Wars!!! LMAO

LMFAO!!!!!!!!!! Looks like Darth Vader trying to pull Luke Skywalker tot he dark side! HAHAHAHA!!


As for set up. running line to about 6 feet of 20 pound mono then a swivle, then a 2 to 4 foot piece of tippet and then the fly. Here is a rough picture of this set up.


--------------()()-O~O--------------~

[Checkurfly]

what kind/size of swivel.....i guess split shot goes above the swivel.


btw...you sure thats a diagram of a line setup?

[Craydaddy]

Hey if you are going to get picky about my artistic skills I might have to delete this whole thread! :p hehehehehehehehe

[gman2153]

...i guess split shot goes above the swivel.


btw...you sure thats a diagram of a line setup?

yeah - if u like losing your swivels with your weights .... read the previous posts about using tag ends...

If you are nice to Cray - he will draw you a diagram of how it works....:D

[Fish-N-Chip]

I do attach a seperate piece of mono for the tag to attach weight. I like/use the way you stated as well. It is definetly easier/quicker. 1 less knot to tie.

I don't like the way the weight "pulls" at the knot when snagged. I'm pulling on the knot from one end to get loose, and since the weight is snagged it's sort of "pulling" from the other end. Not pulling back like tug of war, but it puts more stress on one knot. Not that big a deal when using 20lb maxima, but it can be when using lighter test and/or fluorocarbon.

Just me being picky.

Checkurfly - Swivels are nice to use because it's tough to tie 20lb to 8lb directly. I don't know the size of the SPRO swivel right now but it is rated for 20lb. They are nice and small too!!!

[woolybugger65]

swivel advantages:
1. allows for a point in your line to break off of when snagged. trust me, it beats re-rigging your leader if you dont use one.

2. as G said just leave a piece of line off of your knot at the swivel to attach your weight(s) to.

3. 4 ft pice of tippet section from swivel to fly provides less of a chance of setting your weight(s) too far from the fly which equals money in the DEC's pocket.

all of the setups descibed above work well, it's a matter of what works well for you.

[TOPGUN]

Hey Cray or Lil has anyone thought of maybe taking some of these great threads and permanently keeping them available? This thread ie. fly setup would answer a lot of questions if it were posted somewhere permanently. The same goes for some other great threads as well. I was reading the thread with Ditch and other this morning. I copy/paste a lot of this stuff to my own folders as well and have at least 100 articles/posts from this site and others that have good info. like this. Just thought it would be helpful to all of us and new members to have a "basics" area where this can be kept.
TG

[Craydaddy]

That is a good idea. Let me talk to Lil.

[Checkurfly]

why save the entire thread? just have craydaddy draw up some more diagrams... (runs for cover) :)

[TOPGUN]

Yeah Cray that was an awesome graphic...did you go to school for that???!!!:D

I've just seen other sites that have places where that stuff is honed and kept. That way we don't have threads this time every year asking about it. Then if you wanted you could just post a link to the archive this time each year. Just a thought.....This site is awesome for the knowledge and the way everyone shares their info. Once again I have to say I'm proud to be a member of this site.....YOU GUYS ROCK.

[Checkurfly]

so your saying so people like me dont post this every year? lol. just kidding

sorry guys...ive been fly fishing for probably 8 years now. but still dont fully understand what seems to be "traditional" methods for salmon. such as the highly dangerous chuck and duck method :) . got a niiiice smack in the back of the head from my splitshot...followed by the sharp pain of a comet imbedded into my upper back last year in douglastons. took me 15 minutes to remove the hook. LOL. needless to say...ive yet to perfect my methods for catching these little guys. i'll stick to my 9 ft leader....and throw flies with some tiny tiny splitshot. until someone can show me how to properly chuck and duck....or more specifically....proper "ducking" method. :)

[TOPGUN]

Checkurfly....absolutely not man, didn't mean for it to sound that way. Sorry if it came out wrong. I just started with a fly rod last November so I'm far from experienced. These guys are light years ahead of me. I'm still tyring to understand all of this as well. I read it all as well and still get confused at times. I encourage those to ask questions. I just want to make it easier to find the info. One of the best things of this site is you can ask without getting a "you dumb a$$" answer like I've seen elsewhere.

TG

[troutz99]

Whats good about this is everyone has some questions,and the answers they get are not some holier than thou attitude.Which is good its keeps people interested.Of course everyone has there on methods to rigging etc.. but when you start to piece together some parts of info that is given on here it makes it much easier to try to make it work for you on the water.Thats what makes this fun there is no one way to fish and each time out or whatever you pick up from someone else is a learning experience.

keep up the good work guys and gals

[JStreamside]

Check...I've fished the river since 1981 and found both of these methods effective.

Traditional...needing some depth in a short distance a weight forward mini-sink tip works very well. Use can use up to a maximum of a 14 ft leader total. To sink the tip faster, just add a few split shot...remembering the faster the water your fishing the shorter the leader so the fly doesn't ride too high in the water column. Your 9 ft leader will work fine, but you can go shorter to increase your hook-ups in faster water.

Running lines are most common on sizes .031 & .038 diameter. The object of this method is to just have a little running line (or none) actually on the water. It's just there to increase the ease of making a drag-free drift when drifting eggs and nymphs on long leader. The split-shot should just tick the bottom now and then. "Casting' is just a short role, flip & shoot...this is where the running line has an advantage over a weight forward line as the WF taper will actually hinder this type of fishing.

Rigging...I use something a bit different for running line referred to as the "chuck & duck" method. A barrel swivel size 12 or 14 (black) is used to connect the running line to the butt-section of leader. In most cases, I use 8 to 9 ft of 12 lb butt depending on conditions. Now, on the open end take another barrel swivel and feed the leader through one eye (it should slide freely). I usually pre-tie 4 to 6 inches of 6 lb mono to a bunch of these and keep them in my pack.

Now I slide on a small plastic bead...this protects the knot connection to the tippet and keeps the sliding swivel rig from slipping down to the hook. Tie on your tippet section of 8 or 10 lb monot to the butt section with another barrel swivel. Add your fly and your good to go. The beauty of this rig is that when you do get hung-up, all you lose is a few split shot. The remaining portion of the rig stays together. If something is going to break off, it will always be the 6 lb tag as its your "weakest/lightest" connection.

In my humble opinion, it also helps with hook-sets as you have a direct connection to the fish without having the split shot "absorb" so much of the energy of the set. Strike detection is also increased because the shot is not directly connected to the leader. To avoid any further casting "episodes" (been there enough myself until I tried this) turn your wrist outward on your forward casting stroke as this will help the leader turn over cleaner and quicker.

To those wondering...yes, this is a legal set-up so long as the weight is not more than 4 ft from the hook point when suspended vertically from the rod tip. Hope this helps and answers some of your questions.

[flyguy]

A sliding weight system is NOT legal if the weight is permitted to slide greater than 4-feet from the hook. Better re-read the regs; you are taking the terminology from the "bullhead rig" and applying it to the 4-foot leader rule.

No weight farther than 48 inches form the hook, period.

http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/fish/fishregs/fishregsgreatlk0406.pdf

[Ditchrat]

Years ago weight couldnt be to close, now its to far. The salmon river lift is coming back, hard. This stuff is getting stupid

[flyguy]

Well, I have to ask: Whose fault is it? If folks would stop trying to find loopholes and just learn how to fish then we wouldn't have these problems.

Besides, NY regs are pretty innocent compared to some other states.