Opinion on Oswego river skein technique

[goat ball]

Man, it is 11:45, I am trying to sleep and all I can do is think about salmon fishing!! Anyway, with all the talk going on about salmon fishing techniques, here is one I see used on the big O by the guides:

Park your boat at the power plant. Take a slip bobber, a few split shot and skein. Put the bobber stop about 1' off the bottom, and let it sit there. About every 5 minutes the bobber goes down and they either have a big salmon or rainbow on. IMHO, I believe they are lining the fish. These fish stack up in the hole below the powerhouse like cord wood. I think the fish are crusing about 2-3' off bottom and run into the line causing the bait to be pulled into their mouths and float to go under. The guides insist they are crushing skein. I think I am going to try this with a pc of sponge and see if I get the same results some day this fall.

Has anyone else witnessed this? Any thoughts?

[Linescreamer]

I often woundered how they caught fish in that big bathtub with all those bubbles :) .

[the happy salmon]

I often woundered how they caught fish in that big bathtub with all those bubbles :) .LMAO!!!

[goat ball]

Yes ahimon. They catch plenty in the bathtub!! However, I don't think I would like to sit in a boat and bobber fish if I was paying that kind of money.

[Craydaddy]

How do you line a fish with the line perpendicular to the fishs mouth??? I know the guide you are talking about. Not defending him but I don't think he would snag like that.

[goat ball]

These fish are swimming around above bottom in the upper water column. There is hardly any current there. The fish swim into the line, causing the bait to be pulled up off the bottom, and the float to go under.As the float goes under, the fisherman thinks they have a bite, pulling up on the rod causing the hook and line to floss the fish. I have lined fish this way with a jensen egg as bait out at the steam station back when they had a warm water discharge. I would cast the bobber up next to the steamstation wall, and wait for a salmon to swim by and get caught up in the line. Nothing new. Cray, I really don't know if this is what is happening at the powerhouse. That is why I am going to try it with a stupid pc of sponge as bait. If my float goes down, and the fish is in the mouth, I know it didn't hit!!

[CB1]

How do you line a fish with the line perpendicular to the fishs mouth??? I know the guide you are talking about. Not defending him but I don't think he would snag like that.

Cray, Im not saying yes or no on what there doing.. I do know this though, the Oswego is a totally different ball game than the Salmon.. I have fished it for 20 years.. Its not what your thinking as lining on the Salmon.. The fish mill around that pumphouse and up by the dam.. All you havta do is throw out and let your line sit somewhere and sooner or later a King will become entangled in your line.. You can feel when their tails hit your line, backs hit it, and when the line gets in there mouths they basically hook themselves.. No real drift like your thinking.. anyways, I understand what he's saying and it could be done that way.. Not that I would ever do anything like that myself!!! LOL

[gottum]

IMHO-
Oswego is a great place to fish BUT for salmon it's like shooting ducks in a barrel- I certainly won't call it a "drit boat trip" at least for salmon season that is. This is just like Gmonsters "Bowling for salmon" thread.
with that said-
I'll bet more salmon bite then you might think- It's a 50/50 thing> some lined, some bite at any rate your NOT blantantly snagging- which is the bottom line.
Just one question cause I haven't guided in Oswego for salmon in over 10 years-
:confused: Goatball- in guesstimate - what % of salmon are foul hooked using this method? Maybe they're breathing it in like G says?
I've heard it's low but that's from guides- what do you say Goat, Cray?
If it's truely as low as I've been told then it's my GUESS that more are biting then not. Like I said it's just my opinion though.

I'm really interested in this because I have several trips this year for other guides who ask me to follow their lead over there- It's really not my cup of tea but somtimes you got to do whatchya got to do! If worse come to worse I'll run the gauntlet with Hot-n-tots and Kwikies! ;) Like good ole days.

[100$Bill]

If I sound like a broken record I apologise. On the westcoast(CA,OR) I have caught Salmon on Skien under a float. IMHO they were not lined because the hooks were pretty far back in thier mouth/throat. I don't see why fish in Oswego would not behave the same. are some lined? SUre but I believe some EAT skien. The short run in the Big O can allow fish to get up there quickly which means their fresh and the side of the O could allow fish to arrive up there relativley unmolested. With this in mind they should act pretty nomally no?

[gman2153]

I know one thing for sure.
Those guys that stand on the submerged wall next to that hole are NUTS..

[goat ball]

Gottum,

I really don't know. I have watched this from up top a few times,and talked to some of the big O guides. They absolulty insist the salmon are feasting on skein. They may hit it once in a while, but if I'm hooking a fish every 5 min., I would have to ask the question to myself. Are all these fish really hitting? The answer is no in my book, but I am not a guide, and I don't have to promote this to make a living either. I'm not trying to start an arguement, I just want some opinions. I guess the only way is to try it out! :cool:

100$BILL- these fish are spooked with all the splitshot landing from the other side!! If you go gottum, be carefull to wear your football helmet!!:eek:

[gottum]

Yea-I've "discussed" it with the same guides and of course they'll say they're hitting for sure - thanks for the input.
It's amazing how many guides are doing it - it's like let's all jump on the wagon already.
It's like night fishing in front of the river or the bobber for steelie thing on the SR next thing you know everyone wants to take credit for starting the trend.

No helmet needed - In the Camo Caddy I'm almost invisible! :cool:
OR I could-
I'll just bring Gmonster the day before then nobody will want to fish there for a week! :eek: ;)
J/K G! :rolleyes:

[jj7leaf]

A ton of salmon and trout are taken on skein. Just because the fish are stuck ther doesn't mean that they don't hit. If the fish has the hook IN the mouth not by the mouth the fish probably took the bait. Just like Cray said they set there stop so the bait stays off the bottom and drifts. Use some common sense a vertical line and a horizontal mouth the only real way to get eggs IN there is for them to be inhailed or sucked in. Lining is basically when the line goes through a typical breathing mouth and the hook is pulled to the mouth as the weight drifts by, The result is a fish hooked on the OUTSIDE of the mouth.This discovery was why the leader length was changed I was at the meetings where it was such a hot issue the main thing every one had in common was that the fish was hook on the outside of the mouth. and if you are gonna call a fish hooked inside the mouth lining then how do we know that any of the fish we catch aren't just a matter of the bait being sucked in on a drift in the right spot. The first female I get each year goes in to skein chunks and though I can't get to the right spot at the power house I float or drift it for salmon and trout all over the river and other trips as well as the mouth of alot of the tribs. These same guys pull plugs there more often than drift roe but if the plugs don't work Im gonna try something different too. CB1 I know we have talked about the Oswego before if a guy is willing to really drift or float fish then the entire river is great for drifting. Including the kiddie pool and the main channel by the high wall, even all the way to the hotels you just need to adjust your bait and your weight every piece of water in this river has some flow. If we ever meet up in Jan and Feb Ill point you to a couple of different spots.

[goat ball]

Whatever the case may be. Opinions will differ. The guides are putting fish in the boat legally and the clients seem to be happy. I guess that is what counts.:) By the way. Common sense tells me I have lined the fish with a bobber at the steamstation becuase I know the salmon didn't eat the bare hook I was using!! Also I have caught them off the black pipe on wine creek a long time ago using the same method. JJ7LEAF, you know where that spot was.:D

[gman2153]

I'll just bring Gmonster the day before then nobody will want to fish there for a week! :eek: ;) J/K G! :rolleyes:

Dear Gottum:

I will be looking for you at the Big O powergate... I will be the guy on the catwalk above your boat - hanging that 100lb ANVIL on 6lb test fluoro:D

[Linescreamer]

Wait just one D*** minute Goat!! What do you mean if you hook them in the mouth with the sponge they aren't bitting! Most shops sell that sponge in red, black, yellow and even Pink! They all say it is because that's what they are hittin today :D .

[jj7leaf]

One thing I forgot, has anyone seen the new wall they are working on. It looks to be a walkway for accessing the middle wall from above the lower spillway on the west side. It is only framed right now and the foundation is on the rocks. It runs from just above the spill way on the west side around the spillway hole then parallel to the drop off signs about 15 yards towards leto's in front of the power house down to the head of the middle wall. I don't know how high it will be or if it is going to be a finished walkway with water passing underneth but the beggining is there. It may make it really diffacult for the boats from letos to get to the power house. If they finish it and you can access the wall on high water alot of new eddies along the east side of that wall will be open but the wall may divert the water from the east side runs also, so we will have to see how things are set up when they finish.

[gottum]

WOW-
a new obstacle course-
:o we'll all have to go back to guide school to figure out how to manuever around it :D
:confused: Another ?
What's up with Leto's Island- I heard the city is taking it over?
I woder if they will charge us for launching/parking still?

[goat ball]

Gottum,

This is no joke. I have seen some guides back up their trailers in the Bridie Manor parking lot, and walk their boat down the hill into the kiddie pool to avoid the launch charge:eek:

[jj7leaf]

[ JJ7LEAF, you know where that spot was.:D[/QUOTE]
yeah I know the spot.
I think like gottum said you gotta look at the % and where the hook is. I have seen fish hooked with plugs and spoons in the side of the mouth while trolling in the lake. IF I were in the river somepeople would say that he slashed at it out of anger and some would say that you snagged him in the head because there are so many fish in the same spot. But ist has happened to me personnaly in the lake in july and august so did we line the fish with a downrigger cable in front of the bait. This comes back to my question in the beads rigged ahead of the hook. It is done because they say the fish spits out the bead quickly when they feel it. The 2 guides I talked to in Alaska about it say that even though we think the fish would be snagged outside the mouth with the free swinging hook about 90% of the time they take the indie down and when landed the bead is just in front of the mouth and the hook is in the throat. i don't know how that works but I ordered 6 packs from troutbeads.com

[gottum]

Gottum,

This is no joke. I have seen some guides back up their trailers in the Bridie Manor parking lot, and walk their boat down the hill into the kiddie pool to avoid the launch charge:eek:

yea I heard about it and I got an idea who they are- :rolleyes:
can you say HOLD ON MFer :eek:

[riptide]

I've gone salmon fishing on the Niagara in Devil's Hole a couple of times, and what you do out there is rig up a large pencil sinker, about an 8 foot leader, a snelled hook with an egg loop, and a big chunk of skein - out there they prefer it treated with Pro-Cure fluorescent red. When you get a hit there is no doubt the fish ate the eggs - you feel the tap tap tap. I've caught kings there with the hook way down in the throat. Even though the fish are not feeding, the theory out there is that the fish are crushing the eggs to protect their nest, and lessen the competition for their own offspring. You are fishing the bottom in deep water, 15-40 feet, usually from a quietly drifting boat. I feel these fish are much more comfortable in deeper water. The same thing seems to apply at the powerhouse at Oswego. Sometimes you run a kwikfish plug instead of a chunk of skein, and when a king slams it, you can easily get the rod taken out of your hands if you're not holding on tight enough.

The shallower water on the Salmon River, combined with the heavy fishing pressure, results in fish with the living crap scared out of them by the time they've travelled only a few miles upstream, which IMO causes so many people to feel these fish will not bite.

[get the net]

Not to say some fish arn't lined but 90% of the fish I catch there have the bait down there throats. I have been fishing there for many years, I've put sponge, jenson eggs down there and they will not hit, put skien back down and fish on. I guarantee if everyone fished for them and not rip on them the results would be the same as mine!

[CB1]

A ton of salmon and trout are taken on skein. Just because the fish are stuck ther doesn't mean that they don't hit. If the fish has the hook IN the mouth not by the mouth the fish probably took the bait. Just like Cray said they set there stop so the bait stays off the bottom and drifts. Use some common sense a vertical line and a horizontal mouth the only real way to get eggs IN there is for them to be inhailed or sucked in. Lining is basically when the line goes through a typical breathing mouth and the hook is pulled to the mouth as the weight drifts by, The result is a fish hooked on the OUTSIDE of the mouth.This discovery was why the leader length was changed I was at the meetings where it was such a hot issue the main thing every one had in common was that the fish was hook on the outside of the mouth. and if you are gonna call a fish hooked inside the mouth lining then how do we know that any of the fish we catch aren't just a matter of the bait being sucked in on a drift in the right spot. The first female I get each year goes in to skein chunks and though I can't get to the right spot at the power house I float or drift it for salmon and trout all over the river and other trips as well as the mouth of alot of the tribs. These same guys pull plugs there more often than drift roe but if the plugs don't work Im gonna try something different too. CB1 I know we have talked about the Oswego before if a guy is willing to really drift or float fish then the entire river is great for drifting. Including the kiddie pool and the main channel by the high wall, even all the way to the hotels you just need to adjust your bait and your weight every piece of water in this river has some flow. If we ever meet up in Jan and Feb Ill point you to a couple of different spots.

I will take you up on that Jan, Feb fishing man.. I actually have only fished it that time of year like twice.. Neither time with any success, so Im sure your help would be needed.. Thanks...
Interesting on that wall construction.. I have been hearing about it.. I thought maybe they were fixing the middle wall, but from what you say its a whole new section of wall.. That should change things somehow for sure... Did they do any work to the middle wall??