Bowling for Salmon????

[gman2153]

A sentence in that article that Ditch posted - the sentence where he mentioned avoiding the tempation of snagging or lining the salmon when they are in the current - got me thinking of a habit that I still finding myself employing to this day when salmon fishing.

For example, when I get in a good position right above a nice slot and can see a few fish below me opening and closing their gaping jaws as they are making their way upstream, I find it to be just too darn tempting to just let that fly drift right toward them and direct it with my rod right in front of that fish's chops that is vacumming water like a Hoover, and then give a manly hookset once the fly is in its mouth......

Since I am not blatantly lifting or lining I do not think this is illegal - or maybe it is....
So, what do you guys think about my description above...
Is what I described a bona-fide Fishy Bite or "Bowling for Salmon" ........

[the happy salmon]

So, what do you guys think about my description above...
that is something you need to answer yourself. if i could put it in thier mouth everytime that would be great, as we all know they are not feeding. if you are feeling guilty about something... only you know the answer to that. :confused:

[goat ball]

G- I have done this before. I sometimes still do :o . More often than not, I will leave these fish, and try to find some biters.

[gman2153]

Hap - it's not that it makes me feel guilty, or that i feel I should be looking over my shoulder kind of guilty - it just makes me ponder the ethics of it.. It is not as easy as it sounds to get that fly in its mouth and time the hookset perfectly!!.

Like you said Hap - they are not feeding and I see alot worse antics on the river.Perhaps the fact that i know they are not eating makes me feel like I am doing something wrong.

Does anyone else have opinions about this or want to share methods they use which might be considered borderline legal???

[goat ball]

I try to fish the pocket water between big holes. I find that this type of water is less pressured, and the fish tend to be more aggressive. I will usually use the big bright stuff and fish out every pocket in a stretch. I have seen salmon chase a fly and hit out of aggression

[gman2153]

Goat - you are right,,, but when you are standing in just the right spot and the sun is behind you and you sight several submarines about 25 feet below you in the current I find it reeeel hard not to try to throw a Strike!!!:D

[goat ball]

I hear ya ;)

[Craydaddy]

You guys are horrible!! LMFAO!!! I would never do that!!! HAHAHAHAHA!!!!

[floatfisher]

I am one of those that think that you can get a ligitimate strike from an agressive salmon, have seen some move a ways to hit a bait that I was offering (not very often I might add!!!). BUT, befor the float rod comes out and takes over for the fly rod (Early October, and the fly rod dose not see the light of day agian till the spring), I have been known to go "Bowling":D !!!

Honestly, I can remember the day that changed me from a 100% lifter to a person who fished for salmon 76%;) of the time like it was yesterday!!!

[trophy hunter]

G Iam not promoting snagging, but I don't see any problem with this. Maybe this makes me a poor sportmen. The fish could blow the fly away insted of sucking it in. "Just Kiding"

[Fish-N-Chip]

Forget about the salmon and fish for steelhead!!! :D

I don't think that what you are doing is all that bad. Not all that good either. If the hookup is in the mouth, and I stress in the mouth, it would be tough to prove you did anything wrong unless somebody is in your back pocket watching your technique.

Is it fair to Mr. & Mrs. Salmon trying to make their way up the river to do their thing? My 2 cents - No

Do other people do worse things? My 2 cents - yes, but that does not make your technique any better or any more legal.

Am I saint/Mr. perfect that does everything right and all hookups are in the mouth? no, not by any means. I have a lot to learn and always will thank God. That's what keeps my life interesting. Change is good!!

To resist that temptation I try to fish water where I can't see the fish and I try to target areas where a steelhead may be resting. I like to try other techniques as well that keep the fly up in the water column away from their gaping mouths, so if they want it, they have to come get it. Basically, I try to keep the faith, and at some point in the day I am rewarded, sometimes more than once, or I get skunked. I don't care, a few beers and some laughs with good friends and family make it all worth while. The next day will be mine!!

A short story:
I've been asking my uncle to come with our group for a salmon trip for the past 5 yrs and he says he wants to, but doing and saying are two different things. I finally got an answer from him a while back as to why he hasn't made the trip. Basically, he said that he doesn't want to look like he doesn't know what he is doing and he doesn't like it when other people hook/catch fish and he doesn't. Point - He's an old dog that can't be taught new tricks because he is insecure.

I am not saying/typing your are like my uncle Gman, but that salmon you "hook" because you couldn't resist the temptation, may spook a trophy steelie that's in the neighborhood.

It sounds like you are starting to come full circle:) Hop on the train, it's a beautiful ride!!

Just my 2 cents,
~Chip

[the happy salmon]

Like you said Hap - they are not feeding and I see alot worse antics on the river.Perhaps the fact that i know they are not eating makes me feel like I am doing something wrong.

i would not let it bother you gman, if those fish were in front of me i would do whatever it took to get them on the line.... :eek: seriously though, you cast at the fish if you can see them. I got a fine several years ago for sightfishing???? the warden told me i was spotting fish and casting at them??? I asked him if i should cast on shore or in the trees instead of casting at fish that i could see??? what are you supposed to do??? i only keep one or two a year, hooked legaly so i dont care what they say! if i could go bowling all day for salmon, i would! now if you were doing that during steelie season i would have a problem with that. but i know you dont so dont loose any sleep tonight! :D

[Salmonfan]

Here's my 2 bits as well. I've seen soooooo many guys who, as long as it's close to the head (not even the mouth, just a head shot), they're fine. I've been guilty of that in the past, but am trying to increase my skills, and ethics at the same time. I have been fortunate enough to witness aggressive salmon behaviour and have them deliberately take my offered bait, and try to accomplish this without lining, or foul hook. If I foul-hook one, and it does happen, I break off without hesitation. I think as long as you're trying to do the right thing, getting the occasional lining is forgivable and sometimes unavoidable, so cut yourself some slack and just enjoy the time on the river. After all, that is what we all enjoy the most, feeling that bend in the rod and the frieght train heading upstream on the end of it is just a nice bonus :D

[the happy salmon]

If I foul-hook one, and it does happen, I break off without hesitation. Bull****!!! i have heard that from so many guys! do you know how much those hooks and lead and leaders cost!!!! :confused: i will land the fish , get my tackle back and LET THEM GO!!!! there is nothing wrong with that!!!! i have never seen someone break thier line on purpose unless they are about to get spooled! so dont give me that line of crap! how the hell do you know where it is hooked anyways??? some of those salmon look like christmastrees, and what if your line is around his gills or a lower fin???? are you going to break off a once in a lifetime fish????I dont believe you for a second!

[the happy salmon]

tell me, what about the guy that doesnt tie his own flies???? is he supposed to break his line and the 2$ fly he bought???? i stood next to a guy onetime last year that had the nerve to tell the guy next to him to break his line! i would have thrown him in the river if it was me! i have had fish hooked in the mouth and the line was wraped around a hook in the back. if you can afford to break your line, go ahead! :rolleyes: i will take your hook or fly out of the fish when i LAND IT!!!!!

[metalslayer]

Hap----U never fished with me-I DON'T fight foul hooked fish.I may have read it wrong but the original statement wasn't about the accidential lineing of fish.It was a hookset when it got close to the fish.Wrong and unethical.

[Salmonfan]

Sorry to get you so riled, Happy, sheesh!! let me re-phrase: If I know I foul hooked one is what I should have said. I usually fish using a powerbait egg on a hook with a 2 foot piece of 10 lb. leader, so if I lose a single hook and a couple feet of line, no big deal. AND I HAVE PURPOSELY BROKEN OFF WHEN I'VE SEEN MY HOOK IN THE DORSAL FIN, BACK OR TAIL!! so gimme a break, man :D and don't go calling me liar, it's un-called for. If I can't tell fair from foul, yes, I'll land the fish and retrieve my tackle. As for flys, I've never used them, I'm JUST beginning to get into fly gear so let me get one salmon season under my belt before we get into losing tackle. I know it's perfectly legal to land the fish, get your stuff and let the fish go, I wasn't saying it was wrong to do it. But for me, using my spinning rod with a barrel swivel and a leader, if I just break off, all I gotta do is re-tie a hook and I haven't burned the fish out and someone else gets a shot at it.

[the happy salmon]

so gimme a break, man .I dont have a problem with the way anybody fishes, to each his own. the only thing i dont like is people telling other people they should break thier lines. if thats what you think you should do then go ahead.

[the happy salmon]

Hap----U never fished with me-I DON'T fight foul hooked fish.I may have read it wrong but the original statement wasn't about the accidential lineing of fish.It was a hookset when it got close to the fish.Wrong and unethical.You are exactly right metal, i agree with you 100 percent. All i am saying is how do you know its foulhooked, and if it is , what is wrong with getting your gear back??? :confused:

[metalslayer]

One of the biggest problems I have with fighting an illegal fish is that it ties up the run for quite a while-------going up,heads up comeing down, back up ect,ect-----very hard to control a foul hooked fish and it takes opportunity away from others.

[Salmonfan]

I was just saying what I do. It'd be pretty rude of me to tell anyone else how to fish, hell, I'm nowhere's near good enough to even try. I have so very much to learn about salmon and steelhead fishing, which is why I joined up here. Last thing I want is to piss anybody off here who might be able to give me some pointers. I only know a fish is foul hooked if I can see my egg (always bright pink), otherwise I assume a clean hook-up. Sorry if I got on your nerves, Hap, truly not my intention. :o

[gottum]

It's pretty easy to tell if they're fouled- kings anyway- they will JUMP and fly UP stream fast. You rarely ever see a mouth hooked king jumping or blowing up stream at a high rate. On the hook-set a fair or mouth hooked fish will come up head first violently shaking it's head or "swinging" as we say- before they peel a bunch of cord. Most often the fair fish will try using the current and head with it- down stream. I'm with Metal on this I don't LIKE it when people hold up a run KNOWINGLY fighting foul hooked fish. I do think it IS illegal to play out foul hooked fish or even net them for that matter. It's a fine line that's for sure. As soon as I'm sure it's fouled - then SNAP!!! I will break it off. Just my opinion though-

[riptide]

I don't really like the idea of breaking off foul-hooked fish and leaving hooks in them. I fish with Mustad 37132's for salmon - certainly not the greatest hook around but what I like about them is the fact that if you point your rod at a foul-hooked fish, and grab the line, with a little practice you'll find you can bend the hook open without breaking off, and get your fly back. Then just grab a pliers and tweak the hook back into shape and you're good to go again. I don't use heavy line either - usually 12lbs. at most. I rarely seem to have a problem with them bending open on a mouth hooked fish.

It is really not too difficult to tell if you've foul hooked a fish. If you set the hook and get a bunch of violent head shakes right away, odds are you've got a good hook. If you set and your rod starts bobbing up and down like it's caught in a washing machine, chances are you've hooked the fish in the tail. Same if it jumps - although over the years I've had a few good hooks that have jumped, 99% of the time a jumper is fouled. If you set and the fish just sits there, chances are you've hooked it in the arse. Now there will be exceptions like if you've hooked a fish under the jaw or in the head somewhere - you still might get the headshakes right off and you may not realize until the last minute that the fish is not hooked in the mouth. In that case bring it in and release it.

I fish a particular spot in the lower river that always starts off strong early in the morning, and usually stays good until about noon or 1pm. After that a lot of times I can't buy a hookup. I can often times plainly see a ton of fish stacked up and sitting there, but no matter what I do, I can not get a fish to take, even if I knocked 'em dead all morning. The funny thing is that I don't generally even accidentally foul hook them at this time of the day either. Yes I could lift one or line one but I usually spend the afternoon switching to smaller and darker flies, changing to lighter tippets, etc. to try and get a biter. Most times I end up quitting early, getting something to eat & having a few beers, so that I can get some sleep and be back at it at first light when it's really happening.

[the happy salmon]

. Sorry if I got on your nerves, Hap, truly not my intention. :ohey salmonfan, no need to opologize.... i opologize to you , buddy! i am no expert by anymeans, i think that you and metal are absolutely right!!!! i just am saying that you cant be sure if it is foulhooked or not. i have had fish hooked in the mouth and the line was wrapped around another hook stuck in thier body. you just cant tell. i would like to get my stuff back before breaking my line. i opologize for being hasty in my remarks. i will be the first person to admit im wrong but i will not break my line untill i am sure! :D

[Craydaddy]

Boy O Boy I just read that thread and I thought here we go again!! Welcome to salmon season! LOL!! I am glad you guys are more civil than the rest!! Congrats on keeping it under control! Now Happy I think it might be time for a few natty's! LMFAO!!

[Salmonfan]

Hey Cray! You keep 'em cold, and I'll help you and Happy drink 'em. Come to think of it, I am kinda thirsty...... :D Happy: I know exactly what you mean bro, a buddy of mine caught a nice king a few years ago that had a lure, I mean 2 sets of treble hooks and everything, jammed in it's left side. He had a clean hook up but his line got wrapped around both sets of hooks - he was paranoid to even touch the lure because he was already being accused of using trebles cause people only saw that lure. Once we landed it, they saw the truth, but, man, I had to remove the lure from that fish - he was to scared he'd get a ticket even though it clearly was a "pre-existing condition".

Hope next time I'm on the river, I can run into some of you guys. I'll be in town the day of the bake, but hadn't signed up (didn't pay attention and missed the cutoff :( ) so if any of you guys are on the lower river look for my SC hat, probably in the DSR that early in the season.

[Biggie]

I never tell anyone to break off if the fish is foul hooked. But I just let them know if I can clearly see that it's foul hooked and then it's up to him to either waste time trying to land it or break it off....I always break off a foul hooked fish if I know it.........unless it's not a salmon (brown or chrome) then I try to land it so I can remove the hook or hooks.

[Lil Salmon]

Salmonfan... you are still welcome to come to the bake... :)

[JStreamside]

A lot depends upon where you fish in the river and the gear you use, but legal fish do react just as it was posted earlier in the thread. I've found if it's a fouled fish (in most instances) you can tell nearly immediately. To solve this "problem", here's a little trick I was taught by Jim Rusher that works really well.

To get your gear/fly/egg back...quickly and with little harm done to the fish ...feed out a little slack (if possible), drop the rod tip and point it at the fish while "popping" the rod straight back level with the water. The slight bit of slack creates a bow in the line and the "pop" manuever adds just enough force to dislodge the hook. Nothing works all the time, but this method works well enough that I lose very few flies to fish any more and have more time to deal with legally hooked fish that can be controlled easier during a fight.

This is better achieved on a shorter line than longer as with the more line that is out, the more "stretch" you have to deal with and the more tendancy there is to "yank" too hard. Keeping the rod tip low is paramount as split-shot can...and will...hurtle back toward you at tremdous velocity. In which case, you are now unwittingly the bulleye on the "target".

[Lil Salmon]

Hey JS! I can personally vouch for the splitshot bullseye. Thank God my wife works for a cosmetic dentist... I lost my right front tooth and stress cracked the 2 on either side due to a steelhead chucking a hook etc. I think there is a pic floating around on the board somewhere. Take heed everyone this season for teeth and eyes!

-Lil'

[Browntrout5]

I for one feel guilty if I have a foul hooked fish on and everyone has to pull there lines in and watch my fish run up and down. I even feel guilty when I know I am fair hooked and I am tying up holes with a fighter. I fish the urban areas on the Salmon River (UFZ) :D so there is always a lot of people to maneuver around. But I hooked a big brown last year late Nov in the UFZ, there was nobody there but my buddy and I. As soon as I hooked it I knew it was foul hooked, pectoral fin. But I fought it and let it take me down stream and landed it. Had it been happy hour in the middle of Oct I would have pointed the rod and snapped the line. I drive a long way to fish and enjoy the experience as I am sure most of Salmon Crazy boys do. I dont want to ruin for anyone else by making them pull thier lines out or having a fish scare eveything back down to the lake.

I noticed that there is a lot of people who will judge you on your technique on the Salmon. Some people look down on you because you use a sinker in the FZ's or because the pinners catch a lot more fish than other techniques. Or someone lines or snags fish. Aside from someone blatantly trying to snag a fish. Mind your own store and dont worry about what everyone else is doing. Hell, I will even offer to net someones fish that has been foul hooked. He better throw it back though :D

[JStreamside]

BT5...whoa, there's a biggie that was missed in the thread. If you net a foul-hooked fish for someone, even if you're just trying to be a "nice guy" and help out, and the dude keeps it?

Guess we can all see what's next...if he gets nailed by the ECO...odds are you will too. Yup, believe it or not, guys get ticketed regularly for netting a fouled fish that doesn't get released. Kind of like the 2 for 1 deal...NYS ECO style. Be careful out there...sometimes it doesn't pay to be "helpful" on the river.

[Browntrout5]

Yeah, that never occured to me. I have fished the Salmon only a handful of times. I normally fish the Oak, anything goes out there. But its not that bad once the salmon run is over

[Ditchrat]

A sentence in that article that Ditch posted - the sentence where he mentioned avoiding the tempation of snagging or lining the salmon when they are in the current - got me thinking of a habit that I still finding myself employing to this day when salmon fishing.


Im going to keep my big mouth shut from now on. I didnt expect to see this argu... I mean discussion for another month :p

If you want my two cents Who cares they arent steelhead and there going to die anyway.





Heh, heh, heh, :D :D :D :D

Lets see whos going to bite on this one ;)

[CB1]

I for one feel guilty if I have a foul hooked fish on and everyone has to pull there lines in and watch my fish run up and down. I even feel guilty when I know I am fair hooked and I am tying up holes with a fighter. I fish the urban areas on the Salmon River (UFZ) :D so there is always a lot of people to maneuver around. But I hooked a big brown last year late Nov in the UFZ, there was nobody there but my buddy and I. As soon as I hooked it I knew it was foul hooked, pectoral fin. But I fought it and let it take me down stream and landed it. Had it been happy hour in the middle of Oct I would have pointed the rod and snapped the line. I drive a long way to fish and enjoy the experience as I am sure most of Salmon Crazy boys do. I dont want to ruin for anyone else by making them pull thier lines out or having a fish scare eveything back down to the lake.

I noticed that there is a lot of people who will judge you on your technique on the Salmon. Some people look down on you because you use a sinker in the FZ's or because the pinners catch a lot more fish than other techniques. Or someone lines or snags fish. Aside from someone blatantly trying to snag a fish. Mind your own store and dont worry about what everyone else is doing. Hell, I will even offer to net someones fish that has been foul hooked. He better throw it back though :D

If they look down on pinners because they catch lots more fish, not only are they snobs, but there wrong!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! As for your original post GMan, whatcha gonna do, your up there to fish, catch fish man and dont sweat it...

[Craydaddy]

Hey I am a pinner and I still talk to your ugly stick wheelin butt!! :D LMFAO!!!!!!!!!!!

[Catmandu]

Lets cut through this bull****. I go salmon fishing once a year anymore for the last 6 years or so now. Most of the time it is in mid to late Aug or very early Sept. Usually by then there is enough salmon around to scratch the itch that has been killing me all summer long. I, LIKE 99% OF YOU GUYS, LINE FISH. ALL DAY LONG!!!!!!!! JUST ADMIT IT!!!!!!!!!!!!

Some of us have mastered lining fish in the mouth, some of us need a little practice, BUT 99% OF US DO IT!!. And thats a fact JACK!!!

After my annual salmon trip, I dust off the pin and head west in search of HEAD!

Cat

[Craydaddy]

I know you all mean well but this has gone on enough. :) Great read and a lot of reality but I am going to stop it before it gets out of hand!! ;)