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View Full Version : Salmon River N.Y. Ramblings, Thoughts.


Anonymous
09-21-2003, 07:11 PM
Salmon River N.Y. Ramblings, Thoughts.

Why are we seeing less fresh fish entering and running presently than we would normally be seeing, at this time of the year? (In my opinion)
1. Water temperature- It is still in the upper 60's. They like it cooler.
2. Sunny skies- They like it dark, cloudy, low light, rainy and windy. The nastier the better
3. Wind direction - A good strong wind out of the S.W., W or N. W. helps to push-stack the water in the lake-estuary up against the shoreline. This gives the fish a false sense of more water than is actually there.
4. Biological clock- When their clock says run hard and fast they will. Presently mother nature is only telling a handful this.
5. Standing on top of the fish (standing where you should be fishing) - This is an old and unsolveable problem. If you are presently standing thigh deep or deeper, you are standing to deep. These fish do not HAVE to run. And the more people they encounter on their run, the greater the likelihood they will turn around and go the opposite direction. By standing to deep, you are not only hurting your own odds of hooking up but all of the anglers that are standing above you. This is the same reason on the flats on Cape Cod why some fish change their routes on the flats or wont eat. They have been pushed-spooked by other anglers standing to deep. Same on this river.
6. Sometimes what creates the largest runs are when the days grow shorter. Less sunlight triggers the fish's biological clock to charge up river.

In my personal opinion, these are all the reasons why we are not seeing more fresh running, normal numbers of fish presently. Shortly there biological clock will take over and none of the above will matter much, but now everything above is playing a role in the present conditions. Now forget everything I just wrote, because tomorrow it will probably be 80 degrees, sunshine, no wind and everyone including us will be standing up to our chest's in the water and thousands will run. :O


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Lot's of helpful Tips for Salmon:
The following question was asked to me by someone who had been taught the incorrect (illegal) way to catch fish. He was really interested to learn the correct way to fish so he could show his children . I will always make time for anyone out there, who would like to learn how to
fish for these magnificent fish. This was a great question that I find a lot of folks don't realize, so I thought I would share it with you.

Randy,
I was up fishing on Sunday. Saw some good fish. I am having trouble getting them to take a fly. By the time I get a shot at them, they are very pressured. It doesn't make a difference what fly I have on or what size tippet I am using or what length leader I have on. Any time the fly gets anywhere near them, they dodge it. What's going on? What should I do different? Thanks for your help


Your situation is quite common. Here's what I do.
1. Stay in the fast water as these fish are getting ready to blow the hole and run up. They are much more aggressive than the ones in the slow water.

2. Try to get below the gauntlet. Fish the rapids below any of the more popular holes. When there fresh and not educated they will take a fly much better. This goes for any fish in transition, whether they are eating or striking out of aggression. Most people fish were the river is most easily accessible or where they see the most cars parked. Stay away from those areas. What most people don't realize is if they simple walk a short ways they will escape the crowds and pressured fish, on even the busiest weekends.

3. Whenever I'm faced with fish that have seen heavy fishing pressure I always go lighter tippets. As they move up the river they become leader
shy. So I go lighter to disguise the leader so they will concentrate on the fly or bait. Pd test is determined by speed, clarity of water, species of fish, fishing pressure, fresh or educated fish.

4. Try more natural colors as these fish have seen it all. Blacks, browns, olives, (woolly buggers, comets, marabou streamers) Eggs in orange or oregon cheese, are a good choice.

5. Use the bright flies at dawn and dusk. Chartreuse, pink. If you find fish that have not seen any pressure then go bright.

6. Fast water go shorter leaders and heavier Pd. test as all the white water disguises the leader, main line and weight that they will see in the slow water.

7. Slow water, go longer tippets (leaders) and lighter Pd. test. To put more distance between weight and main line as they can see much better in the
slow-deep-crystal clear water. Then they will concentrate only on your fly or bait. And not spook off your main line and weight. Speed and depth of water determine length of leader. (Please see the Reg. book for legal lengths, etc... for your area)

8. Try to keep as much distance from the fish as possible as they are a little smarter than most folks give them credit. Distance also allows them to feel safe and comfortable and not so pressured. They are much more likely to stay longer, giving you more shots.

9. Presentation is everything. I find the kings the least aggressive so putting it in their face is best. Whether you are swinging it with a sink tip, floating line or dead drifting (drift fishing). Everyday, when site fishing is possible we find some fish that no matter how many times you present the fly/bait to them or how many times you change the pattern of the fly/bait, they simple are not interested. These fish are left alone and not bothered with!

I'm glad you're taking the time to learn how to do it right! I'm always more than happy to help anyone who wants to learn how to fish.

I sincerely hope that this information will help you in planning your trip to the Salmon River and make it a safe, fun and most importantly, a memorable experience!
Fish long & prosper!
Randy Jones

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Steelhead Fly Tying Tip:
For those of you with Steelhead on your mind Id like to share with you a fly tying tip that has saved me countless hrs on the vise. It has also enabled me to tie professionally looking flies, in mass production style in no time at all. The Steelhead comes into the river for 2 reason?s, to eat Salmon roe and to prepare to spawn. The glow bug is one of the hottest flies going at this time of the Year to imitate these eggs. The tool I use is called " The Amazing Glo Bug Dispenser." It contains several fluted straw like pieces that allow you to tie different sized eggs. It compresses the yarn to make each egg perfectly
round and tight. My personal record for mass production was 100 flies in 2 hours while consuming several frosties at Pulaski Country Pizza. The
last few came out a little uneven as the light was fading. Ha # 610-678-1899 www.tcoflyfishing.com

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Several year?s ago #?s and highlights on these dates:)

9/13 - My guest was 5 for 15 We ended up in the ---- in the afternoon with not a sole around except 20 or so Salmon that were happy to eat T.A?s perfectly cast fly. You could here a pin drop, if it wasn?t for the whining sound of his drag and the sound of two grown men laughing like two little kids.

9/14 - My guest's were 9 for 35. I would guess 200 or so fish came in that morning. There was a 10 lb. Brown landed and a lot of acrobatic Cohoes in the 8-12 lb. range. We were thoroughly entertained by the acrobatic nature of these magnificent rocket ships. We all shared laughter and excitement as we fought and released numerous fish, admiring there strength and beauty.

9/15 - My guest was 2 for 15. Kenner is presently back home practicing his albright knot as he had to wave good bye to his fly line as it was last spotted trailing behind a 30 lb. + Salmon in the lower end. If found, please e-mail Ha.
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Mail Bag:
Randy,
I also want to learn how to read the water.
Dave

Dave, In a nut shell-Current Breaks are all you are looking for. Anything that breaks the current and gives the fish a break from it. Logs, rocks, heads of holes, tails of holes, depressions on the river bottom, pockets, visual seams, non-visual seams, slots, channels, insides of corners. Deepest part of the tail is a great place to start. Some you can see and some you can only feel.
Put these current breaks in the "travel lane" (deepest part of the river - combined with current) and sha-zam. Fish On!
I'll try to dig up that article on current breaks and re-post it here sometime down the road. Randy

Hi Randy,
What is going on with your daily report. I am stuck traveling throughout November and rely on your river wisdom to let me know what to expect..
When will be your next REAL update....last couple days was all the same...
HELP
Thanks
Bob

Took the weekend off from work.Had to do my laundry. You can only turn your underwear inside out so many times before you have to clean them! Randy
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Fish Tails from Today:
Al looked a bloody mess by 9am after doing battle with one of our Salmon River Kings. He looked like he had just gone through a major fist fight. His shirt was blood soaked. First fish for Al this morning was a 6 inch MONSTER! Then Al decides it's time to go for a swim, splash! I did not realize a 6 inch fish could fight and pull that hard. Finally Al is tight to a big'ol King. Suddenly his hook pull's loose and the split shot recoil's back at him like a bullet being shot from a rifle. It hit's him squarely on the cheek bone. For the next hour Al was continuously wiping the blood away from where the split shot had made impact. Who say's battling these fish is easy. Al was thankfully ok and went on to play with several more Salmon.
(On a very serious note- The above is another good reason to wear your sunglasses at first light and also to remember what split shot can do. The above is mild compared to some of the stories I won't share with you about split shot)

Kevin has been fishing for his entire life but had just started fishing this river a couple of years ago. As I watched Kevin fish I had to admire his perfect drift. Only thing was he was not getting any fish to bite his perfectly cast fly. Hmmmmmm. After 20 minutes or so I walked over and asked him if he still had a fly on. Sure enough he had been fishing the entire time without one. I looked towards the sky and asked the lord, "Why Me" A good laugh was had by all. Kevin's excuse was that he was giving all the other guys in the pool a chance. To which they were all very appreciative. Once we got the fly issue resolved he was tight to another King.

Mail Bag:
I'm interested in booking a trip , but the only fishing I do is with a spinning rod, would this be suited for the river ?
Thank you Howard

Hi Howard,
Yes, spinning rods are as common as apple pie up here. Everyone uses them. I use them a lot when I fish myself. You can use them for Salmon, Steelhead-Winter, Spring, Fall- high or low water, fast or slow. In high water flow's during the Winter or Spring, they are actually an advantage over a fly rod.
Hope this helps,
Randy

Today's Mail Bag:
Quick question. When the water rises, do the holes stay the same or do the fish change their pattern. Does the "hole inside the hole" stay the same?

I find that up to a gate, many of the spots stay-fish the same. More than a gate and some of these area's know longer hold them (to fast) , some area's the prime lie changes further towards the tail. They sit in different area's and many times run the shore line when faced with much-much higher flows.
Hope this helps,
Randy

Hi Randy,
Dave here...I have fished w/ you a couple of times w/ Curt. Great tip on the glo-bug dispenser-I have already ordered one! Many thanks in advance for that one. Can you answer me two quick questions, when you have time? What body material do you use w/ the dispenser(brand and size), and what material and hooks do you use to tie the flies we seems to mostly use when salmon fishing with you?
Love your site and how open and willing to share info with the masses! Thanks for a great tool. Hope to book a spring trip with you.
Thanks again...Dave

Hi Dave,
I just use Glo bug yarn. ( I think they only have one size?) I have not tied one up in years. I have to have other's tie for me now due to how busy I am, no time to tie anymore. Most hook sizes range for Salmon from 6, 8, 10. Mustad 37132 and their shrimp caddis 80200br.
One of the best Glow Bug Hooks on the Market are Mustads 9174 Hook. Glow Bug material is very buoyant, so a lil heavier hook can at times be a big advantage when fishing for Steelhead. Keep this info. under your hat. If everyone else finds out then I will no longer have an advantage on the water. Ssssshhhhhh!
Hope this helps,
Randy
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Fish Tail's:
While discussing what to do with the rod when I net a fish. I instructed my client to always drop the rod tip. Creating slack so as not to pull the fish away from me, and out of the net. Soon they're after, as I was ready to net his fish. I yelled (Politely), drop your rod. As I looked on in disbelief (trying not to laugh) my client dropped his rod into the river?????? Needless to say, the fish was lost but rod was recovered and a good laugh was had by all!

My good friend Joey told me a story about a Salmon trip. His client was catching his fair share, when his client's glasses went into the drink. They didn't know at the time a friend of theirs was fishing the hole below them and caught a Salmon with eyeglasses in its mouth. Salmon was released and glasses were kept. The next day he told Joey of his experience. Joey told him his client had lost a pair yesterday: hence glasses were returned to a very happy angler.

Sally was the only woman in the pool when the tip of the rod started pulsating up and down as if attached to a ball bouncing down the street. Sally yelled, " I think I've got one?" All the men in the pool politely reeled up and watched as I think they all knew this could be one of the better shows of the day. Several of the men in the pool gave out a cheer of encouragement. Sally had an original way of reeling------ out the fish. I guess she wanted to give it a chance? Shortly afterward every guy in the pool was cheering her on and explaining she should reel the other way. Finally at her feet laid a handsome 15 lb. Coho, bright with spawning colors. Not bad for a girl. ;)

Mike also holds the record for the number of times anyone fall's in, in a single day. By 9am. he was a rock solid 2 for 2! Mike was ok after falling in so I guess it's ok to have a lil fun. At one point Mike was doing battle with a big ol King. Next thing I see is Mike pulling a superman dive into the water with both legs and arms out stretched as if he was flying through the air. Splash!
Next thing I notice is my rod is not in Mike's hands and he is chasing my $600 rod and $700 reel downstream fast as that 30lb. King Salmon took off like a rocket. Rod was recovered, reel was a lil nicked up, Mike was ok, but unfortunately fish was lost.

Be careful out there, or YOU could be the next Fish Tail.

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The relationship between transitional fish and structure during low light periods and bright sun.

Where to fish? --This covers all species of fish that are in a transitional stage that are entering the river. Most fish use the contour of the bottom and current to navigate. They travel virtually the same route, day after day taking a lot of the guesswork out of it. (Where I sight fish for Stripers, Monomoy Island-Cape Cod on the flats, this is also true.) Normally the deepest part of the river is where they will travel. Once you?ve made this determination, the next step is to search out their holding, resting points. The length of time they will hold in any particular type of structure is determined by the size of the hole, pocket, depth, speed of water and what they had to travel through to get to that point. Also fishing pressure and weather is a consideration. To narrow your search down for the best spots, consider any deep water just above a long stretch of rapids. These normally are the tails of pools were there is rippled water and depth to offer security, and a break from stronger currents. These are the areas were they will be for the longest period of time allowing you the most shots. To improve your odds even further, look for channels or areas where the majority of fish travel and hold in a small area of the tail end of the hole.
Now you know where I fish. Not only will you have 90% of the fish passing by in a narrow area offering you the opportunity to present your fly to almost every fish, but you?ll also have them sitting in front of you for the longest period of time, allowing the best odds in the house for hooking up! I call these areas funnels. Other areas to look for are heads of pools, white water on a sunny day or when the water temperature is so high the oxygen level is low. Depressions on the river bottom were they could hide underneath the faster current. Pocket water, surrounded by rapids. Outside bends in the river combined with a depression.
Remember to fish the resting, holding area?s during the run, which is normally during low light periods. Look (fish) for them in the shade, deep rippled water, white pocket water during the high noon sun. If heavy fishing pressure is present, fish for them in the white water.

If you remember that 90% of the fish swim in 10% of the river, you will do just fine.
Best Fish's,
Randy Jones

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Please keep in mind that when you read other reports and they say the "www.Yankee hole" was good or the "angler.com spot? produced fish that these are some of the more popular (crowded) areas on the river. Normally the more hooks in the water, the more hook-ups. Some folks I know get turned off by the crowds when visiting these spots and rightly so. Please don?t think that you HAVE to fish shoulder to shoulder. I rarely if ever do it and even on the busiest day during Salmon season you shouldn?t either. If you are unfamiliar with the river, think about taking a walk down stream of these famous holes during the busy Salmon season. Normally below these spots there are rapids. Look for the pockets and slots that create the deepest road map for the fish to follow. Find a nice pocket during the A.M. run and you will be surprised by the # of fresh fish you will see, hook and have all to yourself. Spend a little time scouting and I?m sure you will be rewarded.

I sincerely hope that this information will help you in planning your trip to the Salmon River and make it a safe, fun and most importantly, a memorable experience!
Fish long & prosper!
Randy Jones
www.yankeeangler.com - Daily Fishing Report's with Pictures.